Miles Hubbard discusses enhancing your truck’s interior with Katzkin Leather, while Lightning provides a crucial LokJaw update. Plus, there’s a chance to snag some swag if you use #hugscottbirdsall. Proudly sponsored by Nissan, in partnership with Banks Power and Hellwig Products, this is The Truck Show Podcast.



The following transcription of The Truck Show Podcast was generated using a speech recognition software, and will contain errors. Please review the timestamp and listen to the corresponding audio for accuracy. 

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Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3s):

Holman, there is so much to get to this show. It’s breaking news time here on The Truck. Show Podcast.

Sean P. Holman (11s):

No, no, no wrong show.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (13s):

No wrong

Sean P. Holman (14s):

Show. No. This is the, everybody’s driving to Seima this morning show, so we’re gonna make it four hours. That way all of our listeners in Southern California who are driving to Vegas can have the entire show on their entire drive. And the rest of you’ll have to suffer. So I. Wonder if I’ll listen to the show Monday on my way, just because I’m bored. Is it

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (33s):

Weird to listen to yourself?

Sean P. Holman (35s):

I do it every week at two XI try not to miss anything. No,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (39s):

No. That, no. Do you do it in your Jeep during your free time?

Sean P. Holman (42s):

No, I’m not listening to us. Three times or four times. I listen to us when we did it. I listen to it when you edit it. I listen to it when you have to re-edit it, and then I’m not listening to it again after that. So it’s weird.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (51s):

Every once in a while I’ll pick a random show and I’ll listen to the first

Sean P. Holman (55s):

And be reminded how bad we

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57s):

Are. And sometimes I go, that was actually really good. that was No, no. Just

Sean P. Holman (1m 0s):

The opposite. No, what was good was Mike Ola last week. It was great. that was one of our best episodes of the year by

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 6s):

Far. I think I had a really good time with the, with the president.

Sean P. Holman (1m 9s):

Yeah. that was awesome. I’m glad he, he came all the way down. And honestly, I think there were a bunch of topics that I didn’t even think we would cover that I would hope everybody was interested in. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 21s):

I. Think we embarrassed him with this theme. I

Sean P. Holman (1m 23s):

Think he liked it. Did you So listen, if you guys heard the, the SEMA pre episode last week, I guess, what was that, 42 or something like that. Hit us up. Truck Show Podcast at I, I’m curious if you guys like that sort of industry insider type talk, because there’s a lot of things we cover the future and EVs and pain points. There’s just so much stuff.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 43s):

We could spend another three hours with him. Oh,

Sean P. Holman (1m 44s):

We will. Yeah. You know, he’s coming back. Yeah. We’ll, but we’ll wait till after after sema. Okay. We

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 49s):

Got a lot of business to get to really quick. So we are going to be at the EGR booth at sema. That is dead center at West Hall. If you are lucky enough to be at the SEMA show this coming week, I guess it’s this week as you’re listening to this. It starts Tuesday and runs through Friday. Friday’s open to the public. We’ll be at the EGR booth

Sean P. Holman (2m 12s):

Thursday, November 2nd. That will be at the EGR booth

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 14s):

From, oh, we doing four to five? Is that what we’re doing?

Sean P. Holman (2m 17s):

Two to four.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 18s):

Two to four. But

Sean P. Holman (2m 19s):

Good guess two, two to four at the e booth. I’m glad, I’m glad you’re right. On top of our schedule for sema,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 24s):

I was having beers in one of the other booths and I just wandered over your, you’re doing I.

Sean P. Holman (2m 27s):

I doing the show. Exactly.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 29s):

Booth 57. 1 0 3. That’s 57. 1 0 3. Almost dead center in the West Hall. Why is the West Hall important? It’s all truck stuff. All truck stuff.

Sean P. Holman (2m 38s):

Trucks. All right. So hopefully there are some of you who are listening Monday or Tuesday morning who are looking for something to do at, at cma. So as you know, CIMA Education and CIMA as an organization puts on a ton of seminars. I’m actually hosting a panel. All

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 53s):

Of them. Huh? All of them. You’re hosting all of them? No. No, because last year and the year before, you were doing like I eight per

Sean P. Holman (2m 58s):

Day. It was ridiculous. I, I. think I did five one year and four. I’m only doing one this year. Oh.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 2s):


Sean P. Holman (3m 2s):

They’re, they’re weaning me off of the, the SEMA Tet, if you will. I guess. But if you’re looking for a pretty interesting session, the Truck and Offroad Alliance or Torah has Wait,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 13s):

Torah, like the Sprinkler company.

Sean P. Holman (3m 15s):

I would be Toro and no, it has nothing to do with sema. So we’re doing a truck and off-Road Builders panel with a number of leading shops from the country. And we’re gonna be talking about, it’s actually an hour scheduled for an hour. So 11:00 AM to 12:00 PM on Halloween. So Tuesday the 31st in room N 2 5 8. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 34s):

They’re never gonna remember that.

Sean P. Holman (3m 34s):

That’s N 2 5 8. If you’re going to sema, you will. Okay. So, You can go and look up. SEMA has all of the different speaker stuff. Anyway, important thing to remember. 11 o’clock on Tuesday, and we’re gonna be talking about all sorts of stuff from a shop owner and builder’s point of view, vintage vehicles, CRM systems, challenges, regulation, what the next hottest platform is gonna be, what trends they’re seeing. And you guys are gonna get to talk to and ask questions of these premier shops. And I’ll be moderating that and it’ll be pretty cool.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 3s):

And if you’re looking for your boy Lightning, he will be in the am Zo booth with LokJaw that’s almost dead center of Central Hall. So Azo Booth, I will be there with Gail Banks. He’s doing some autograph signings. Two sessions on Tuesday and one smack dab in the middle of Wednesday. We will have LokJaw. I got an interesting story about LokJaw. You’ll enjoy this because I know you love when LokJaw Payne is. You

Sean P. Holman (4m 27s):

Love Payne. No, no, that’s not true. But before you get there, you know who else will be in the AM oil booth? I Scott. Birdsall I. Think he’s on Thursday, Friday.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 35s):

Yeah. So, so be

Sean P. Holman (4m 36s):

There with the, he’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 37s):

There, he’s there. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday I

Sean P. Holman (4m 38s):

Believe. Wednesday. Okay. So he’s bringing his Bonneville Toyota truck. So if you want to see our buddy Scott Birdsall. So here’s the thing, if you’re going to Seema and you want to give love to The Truck Show Podcast Scott literally just put up on his Instagram, Hey, come by and give me a high five. and I put, I’ll be there for my Hug. I want all of our listeners

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 57s):

To try to give him a Hug to try

Sean P. Holman (4m 58s):

And Hug Scott Birdsall and really creepily in his ear, say The Truck Show Podcast sent me because I think he’ll love it or he won’t don

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 7s):

Don’t think he’s gonna be cool with people just I. Think it would be Randall’s hugging. Oh

Sean P. Holman (5m 10s):

Yeah. It’s gonna be awesome. So let ’em know. The Truck Show Podcast sent you do there for a Hug

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 14s):

Truck. Show Podcast t-shirt to you. If you give him a a reach around and just do a little quey squeeZ on

Sean P. Holman (5m 19s):

The bun. I think that would, I think somebody would get a hospital visit if, if that were the case. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 24s):

So, so, all right. This is, this will be funny for you.

Sean P. Holman (5m 29s):

Okay. I’m laughing. Oh, on the inside.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 32s):

LokJaw was in the Amsel booth a couple of years ago. Two years ago. Yeah, two years ago. Right. We had to push it in.

Sean P. Holman (5m 38s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 38s):

Because we just weren’t done with it. Right. It was like every TV show build you’ve ever seen where we raced it.

Sean P. Holman (5m 42s):

Right. Then you did that thing where you finally got it running after sema, we got it

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 45s):

Running and then you

Sean P. Holman (5m 46s):

Revved it and blew a keyway out and tanked the motor.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 49s):

Yep. So if you remember that episode, I confessed to hurting the engine. Right. So then we reinforced it like Mike Keegan, our engine builder. Just incredible job. Just that it, it’s a, it’s a bulletproof engine. We fueled it up. Jeff Lee in engineering, our calibrator gets all the motech tuning dialed in. Everything’s ready to go.

Sean P. Holman (6m 9s):

Let me guess it. It’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 10s):

Not ready to fire it.

Sean P. Holman (6m 11s):

It’s bulletproof, but not lightning proof.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 13s):

No, I’m not even near it at this point. Oh wow.

Sean P. Holman (6m 15s):

We wouldn’t even let you, were there locked doors between you and the vehicle? So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 18s):

It started a couple times and now I’m in my office and

Sean P. Holman (6m 20s):

You can hear it.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 21s):

Oh my God. You can hear this through the walls. It vibrate seat. It’s not quiet. It is not quiet, right? Yes it is. It’s a straight piped V eight. Right. It does not sound like a Diesel with a

Sean P. Holman (6m 29s):

Supercharger on it.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 30s):

It winds and it’s angry and it it’s raspy. Sounds like

Sean P. Holman (6m 34s):

It could be my cohost.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 35s):

It’s me. Right? Okay. Right. It’s, it’s, it’s me. It’s

Sean P. Holman (6m 38s):

Also broken it,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 41s):


Sean P. Holman (6m 41s):

Air. Wait, wait. Drum roll.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 45s):

So the air motive, low pressure fuel pump that’s in the fuel cell starts making some interesting noise and then it starts vibrating. Oh. And we go, oh, that’s interesting. What’s going on here? Okay. We thought we had a, maybe a loose ground. It was just, we spent half a day trying to figure it out.

Sean P. Holman (7m 1s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 2s):

I call up here motive, I plead with them. They have one on the shelf ready to go. It’s a gorgeous billet aluminum,

Sean P. Holman (7m 11s):

We’ll never see ’cause it’s inside the tank. Well,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 13s):

You can see the top of it. Okay. It pokes out a couple of inches. It’s just, it’s a work of art. Like they,

Sean P. Holman (7m 17s):

So it’s one of the top load ones. And

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 18s):

We, so we have no idea how or why it died. We’re like, this is Super weird. The airmotive stuff is, has been just wonderful. Everything we have in our great stuff, really, really top fuel cars all run automotive, right? Yep. Okay. They overnight one, I get it at 10 o’clock the next morning. I think I over I I call them right before FedEx. They got over to UPS. I got it. We put it in the new one’s working, but there’s a strange vibration still in the fuel line. It’s like, this is weird. We’re not getting full fuel pressure,

Sean P. Holman (7m 47s):

Is it?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 47s):

What’s happening? So we sucking

Sean P. Holman (7m 49s):

Up the foam in the, in the baffles.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 51s):

You have, there’s no foam in there. Okay. There’s no baffling in there. Nope. It’s not that exotic of a tank. Okay. Just this beautiful aluminum tank. We pull it back out, they stick a flashlight down in it, and we see metal filings in the fuel at the bottom of the tank. Does

Sean P. Holman (8m 8s):

It have a return? Yes. So when you blew up the engine the first time, no. The return sent metal down to the tank?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 14s):

No. No. We ran it a lot after we hurt the engine. Okay. And it was fine. How

Sean P. Holman (8m 20s):

Did metal get in the tank? I,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 23s):

We think that someone was grinding metal near the tank when the truck was undergoing some fabrication. We’re not sure. Oh, I we’re not pointing fingers yet. You,

Sean P. Holman (8m 36s):

You said that super, super politically because you don’t want our friend over at Empire Fab Sean Ramage to be mad at you for blaming him for blowing up LokJaw.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 46s):

I’ve already had a phone conversation. He and I have already spoken and I’m not saying But how did

Sean P. Holman (8m 51s):

It get in though?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 51s):

We don’t know. And he doesn’t know. He says

Sean P. Holman (8m 54s):

If it was

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 54s):

Sealed, listen, he says he took the fuel cell out. Yep. It They never took the cap off. Yep. Which is a locking cap. Yep. They they took it out. They put it up on the shelf. Yeah. And They worked on the chassis. And They did what they had to

Sean P. Holman (9m 6s):

Do. Well, did they put, but there’s tape over the lines and stuff. They said they

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 9s):

Did. Okay. There is a lot of metal. So the 10 micron air mode fuel filter caught some of the bigger stuff. But I said, did it make it all the way to the high pressure fuel pump? So it’s like metal dust. Metal dust. It literally is metal dust. And so that doesn’t

Sean P. Holman (9m 24s):

Make me happy, by the way. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 25s):

Mike dropped a couple lines up by the high pressure fuel pump close to the engine. Yeah. And he poured ’em into a little can. And we put a, a red, like a safety towel type or a Yeah, like handheld at the bottom.

Sean P. Holman (9m 37s):

So that would catch it all. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 39s):

So You could see Yeah. The like, like you’re panning for gold, right? Like you want to contrast color and you could see it at the bottom like little specks of gold dust. It’s through the entire fuel system.

Sean P. Holman (9m 50s):

Oof. So it’s basically like a Bosch CP four exploding on a ram or a gladiator or super duty.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 59s):

No, this is luckily the Airmotive filter caught. We think the big stuff. But there’s fine metal dust everywhere. So we’re not, we’re not gonna run it So You. We are.

Sean P. Holman (10m 9s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 10s):

Second time LokJaw will be at SEMA being pushed into the am. By you. By me. Yeah, by me. And it’s not that I was thrilled to like drive it in, which is nice, but I wanted the fricking power steering. I’m telling you, dude, moving that damn truck around with a duramax in it. It’s heavy with no power steering blows. And it was really disheartening. I feel bad for some of the guys at work that have poured hours into it the last like 3, 4, 5 weeks getting it ready. Yeah. It’s all new. That’s everything is reow coated. Everything is beautiful. And it will run it, it will run,

Sean P. Holman (10m 49s):

But you have to do a

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 50s):

Lot, lot of clean. It’ll run now. Yeah. So Mike is prepared to, you gotta pull the supercharger off then the intercooler. Yeah. And,

Sean P. Holman (10m 56s):

And diesel’s oily. So it traps all that stuff.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 58s):

So, You. Gotta get to the high pressure fuel pump. And then we have to take the injectors out. We gotta send the injectors to SNS to be cleaned. Yep. And honed if they need to be. If there’s, you know, credit those. So it’s gonna be a couple of weeks after SEMA that we finally can get this thing up and running. Months. It’s possible. And my fear, my fear is that we’re gonna get it back from SEMA and Gail. Gail will go

Sean P. Holman (11m 18s):

Right in the corner.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 18s):

Gail will say, let’s put it next to Sean’s F 100 and then it will sit under a cover forever. I

Sean P. Holman (11m 24s):

Almost forgot. Forgot about that. Yeah. Almost.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 26s):

So, dude, not to bring everyone down, but like I’m, it’s so gorgeous when you see LokJaw, if you’re lucky enough to be at sema,

Sean P. Holman (11m 32s):

Does it still have those ugly wheels on it?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 34s):

Well, right now, no. It’s actually got some black rhinos that look like,

Sean P. Holman (11m 37s):

Oh, those are even worse. Well, those are the rollers. No, I know, but those, those are just rollers. I know wheels though are don’t

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 41s):

Don’t talk smack on my, my black rhino. But like, well the, no, you haven’t seen the ones that are on the rollers. They’re not like military. The the ones that are on it are not, they’re just regular kind of like standard black rhino. Wheels. Wheels. They were flat

Sean P. Holman (11m 54s):

Black and stuff. But the same wheels from the last time I Seema,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 57s):

We are doing the, the, the Chromi homie. 20 twos. Yeah. Solid billet. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (12m 2s):

Solid. But they solid billet. No, the ones that were at had like a, a shark tooth to it. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 6s):

Billet. When I say solid I mean they were started as well.

Sean P. Holman (12m 8s):

Solid. It looks like a steely. Which is way, way rather

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 11s):

Than not, not, not solid. They started as solid blocks and now they’re Yeah. Ugly. Their ability. I I think

Sean P. Holman (12m 16s):

People, it just doesn’t match the truck.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 18s):

I think they’re so different. Yeah. That it comes full circle. Yeah, for

Sean P. Holman (12m 21s):

Sure. I think that’s a, that’s a great excuse. Really? Yeah. I. I. Love that truck. I don’t, don don’t love that part of it. I just think the wheels are So. I. They’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 29s):

So, they’re so modern looking. Yeah. And. they just, they they match the engine and everything else. It’s rad. So listen, Seima is open to the public. I I know if you’re hearing this and you can’t get there, you’re like, stop talking about the Seima show. It’s a big deal for us. I apologize. Big deal for the industry. But it’s a big deal. Why

Sean P. Holman (12m 43s):

Are you apologizing? Because

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 44s):

I know that, see a lot of our listeners just can’t go.

Sean P. Holman (12m 46s):

No. Stop. They want to hear all about it. ’cause they can’t be there.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 48s):

Okay, well we’re gonna bring it to, it’s our job to bring to them. We’re gonna bring it to you. We got parties lined up. We’re gonna be all over the place. Yep. I’m going to the Katzkin party by the way. We’re gonna check in with Miles, who is the creative director at Katzkin. And if you’re not familiar with Katzkin, they make some of the most beautiful, dare I say, seat covers, but Leather Interiors. If you are unhappy with your crappy cloth interior or you got a Leather interior that’s dying, look at Katzkin. K-A-T-Z-I-N. We’ll talk to miles shortly.

Sean P. Holman (13m 16s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (13m 17s):

Dot com. Yeah. So we’re gonna be hanging out at their Halloween party Tuesday night over the penthouse. And then I think we’re doing the, you and I are gonna hit the Expel party. We’re doing the Roadster shop party. So there’s a lot going on in, in Vegas that we’re really pumped about. Alright,

Sean P. Holman (13m 32s):

So before we continue the show, we gotta thank Nissan our presenting sponsor because Nissan helps bring the show to you every single day without fail. Just like the way they’re awesome. Frontier and Titan and Titan XD will start up for you every morning with their reliable, durable, dependable, amazingly built high quality trucks built right here in the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (13m 53s):

USAI almost couldn’t contain myself. I almost jumped on you. You tried I. I tried I I. You tried and I I stopped myself. We have what I think is one of the nicest pro four x builds at Banks right now. Nice. We brought ’em in for pedal monster testing so we could get reverse safety active. Yep. Turns out it was no sweat. We had it in and out in 10 minutes, but we decided to keep the truck a week just ’cause it looks right in the shop. And where are the posts, dude, I’m telling you, where are the posts? Take

Sean P. Holman (14m 18s):

A picture

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (14m 18s):

Of it. They’re coming. Okay. They’re coming, dude. It’s got this gorgeous, I think it’s called Baja Storm. Metallic. Yeah. It’s the, it’s the kind of like sand tan color. It just offset with the roof rack. He’s got a great bed rack, right lift kit. Like the whole, it is just, it’s ex, it’s perfect. Must

Sean P. Holman (14m 34s):

Know more about this truck.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (14m 35s):

Exactly. I, I’ll post a picture of it. All right. Because when it pulled in, it was just like, wow. This guy built it exactly how it should have been built. And a shout out to Forbidden Fantasy. Apparently he’s a truck club member ’cause it’s a big old sticker on the back.

Sean P. Holman (14m 46s):

So what you’re saying is you can get your own at your local Nissan dealer or head over to Nissan where you build and price the Nissan Frontier with its awesome styling starts at 29 7 70. And while most of the competition is switched over to turbo fours, the Nissan gives you a doula overhead cam V six with 310 horsepower, 281 pound, feet of torque backed by a nine speed automatic. And Max Towing comes in at 6,640 pounds. Which that’s a pretty good sized trailer. Get yours today at your local Nissan dealer or check about at Nissan

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (15m 18s):

And a question that I hear quite often is Lightning. How can I increase my fuel economy? ’cause it doesn’t seem like diesel’s coming down anytime soon and you’re getting hammered. The only way to really increase your fuel economy is to decrease the restrictions in the intake system and decrease the back pressure in the exhaust system. The way that you do that is by getting rid of all of that corrugated looking crap and, and and hoses that are restrictive. And go to a Ram Air intake. Gale Banks and the team at Banks Power spend hundreds and hundreds of hours modeling intake systems, testing them on the flow bench, testing them on the dyno, testing them in the truck.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (16m 0s):

The result is increased air mass, which means your turbo doesn’t have to work harder. And when your turbo doesn doesn’t have to work harder, that’s more power that you can get to the ground. Shop for your Ram Air intake at Banks

Sean P. Holman (16m 12s):

And if you’re someone that actually uses your truck, like overloaded high center of gravity, hitching up big ass trailers, then you’re gonna wanna go to Hellwig where you can check out their sway bars and helper springs and they’ll eliminate the saggy bottoms that you may be experiencing from overloading the back of that. I know every truck looks like whatever you can fit into that bed should go. But that’s not always the case that defies physics. Helwig is a fourth generation family business that’s been manufacturing in the USA since 1946. So, so if you’re looking for a product that’ll make your truck handle and control loads better Hellwig products is where you want to go.

3 (16m 47s):

The truck show, we’re gonna show you what we know. We’re gonna answer what The truck truck rides with the truck show. We have the lifted. We have the lowered and everything in between. We’ll talk about trucks that run on Diesel and the ones that run on gasoline. The truck show. The truck show. The truck show.

4 (17m 19s):

It’s the truck show with your hosts Lightning and Holman

3 (17m 25s):

For the show. Stop every weekend at Backyard. I just

Sean P. Holman (17m 31s):

Can’t stop the talking

3 (17m 32s):

About drugs.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (17m 35s):

Thank God Miles is not on the phone to hear you singing. No,

Sean P. Holman (17m 37s):

We have to actually call him and find out if he’s going to answer since apparently you’ve known him for like 20 years and never once invited him on The Truck Show Podcast. It’s funny ’cause

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (17m 45s):

I see him. I see weird sema. No,

Sean P. Holman (17m 47s):

It’s even worse. We’ve literally sat in the studio and talked about Katzkin products. Literally we have had that conversation. Not what did you go, oh, I should call Miles.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (17m 58s):

I wonder how many people I know in the industry. That would be fascinating interviews and yet you just

Sean P. Holman (18m 2s):

Don’t even

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 2s):


Sean P. Holman (18m 3s):

Haven’t booked them. Yeah. If you know Lightning and you’re like, Hey dude, why am I not on your stupid podcast? What’s up? Just send him a note. He does. He’s not thinking about you.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 11s):

No, apparently I’m not. Alright, can

Sean P. Holman (18m 12s):

We, without further delay, since we’ve delayed six years having him on the show, can we give him a call?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 18s):

All right. Tell Mr. Miles Hubbard of Katzkin.

5 (18m 25s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 27s):

Mr. Miles. Hubbard Lightning and Holman Truck. Show Podcast. How you doing?

5 (18m 31s):

I’m doing great. How about you?

Sean P. Holman (18m 32s):

Are you juggling a cat while doing the dishes? What’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 34s):

Going on there?

5 (18m 38s):

Just having a little ERs. So now I’m back.

Sean P. Holman (18m 41s):

I. Think he was installing seat covers.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 43s):

I Doubt. Yeah, those were

Sean P. Holman (18m 44s):

The ho those were the hog ring pliers going through the hog rings.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 47s):

I I. Don’t think So I think he has people for that now. Oh, does he?

Sean P. Holman (18m 50s):

Yes. What’s it like to have people I this

5 (18m 52s):

Point? 2020 years of cats. Can you gimme something like that? Yeah. Alright.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 56s):

Absolutely. He’s got some juice. Hey, real quick, we’ve got an intro to play, so don’t move Miles. Welcome to the parts department.

6 (19m 3s):

Screw Nut filter oil grill tools, the polar support Wheels, tires, brakes, lights, ears, belts, the polar depart

7 (19m 15s):

And your wife warns you not to.

8 (19m 18s):

Don’t do spend our money and then your want

6 (19m 21s):

Come back.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 22s):

All right. Now I been a long time since I’ve said this Holman, but the wife is super digging. Katzkin Leather,

Sean P. Holman (19m 27s):

I think you said that last week.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 28s):

No I didn’t

Sean P. Holman (19m 29s):

About Katzkin, but about

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 30s):

The last company, That one? No, we haven’t done parts department in maybe like four or five episodes. Oh, okay. Alright. It’s been a, it’s been a minute. I

Sean P. Holman (19m 35s):

I I. Want Miles to feel like we did something special for him? We did.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 38s):

It’s been four or five episodes.

5 (19m 40s):

I I feel special. Thank you.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 42s):

You are so Miles. How long have you and I known each other? I feel not to date us, but I feel like it’s been close to 20 years. At least a decade. Yes.

5 (19m 51s):

It’s been about 20 years. Yeah. Yes. It’s been about, I’m gonna say 18 years. Holy and You know what, actually I don’t forget. I’m also Southern California, born and raised. So like I’ve known you my whole life listening to K, so

Sean P. Holman (20m 2s):

Oh, he’s got a better radio voice than you do. He

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 5s):

Does. Oh, I, I’m kind of bumed I’m kind of bummed that we’re not interviewing him. That’s okay. In person because I always catch up with him at the, at the party that they throw at the Seima show or at the booth or at various festivities. His voice is just like, it’s not baritone, but it’s just

Sean P. Holman (20m 22s):

He’s definitely not DJ Tweeter,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 24s):

That’s for sure. No, he’s not DJ Tweeter,

5 (20m 25s):

But I I do have a face for radio, unfortunately.

Sean P. Holman (20m 28s):

Well, that’s, we got faces for podcast. We couldn’t even get on radio. You know, In fact, lightning’s face was so bad they kicked him out of radio and put him on podcasting. Stop,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 36s):

Stop, stop. No I I knew it was bad and I I took myself.

Sean P. Holman (20m 40s):

You took yourself outta the game. Outta the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 42s):

Game. Exactly. Got it, got it. Hey So, I couldn’t believe the other day that when you and I were chatting online and, and by the way, not a dating forum, it was just he and I like training emails. Exactly. Sure it was Right. Exactly. We found each other.

Sean P. Holman (20m 57s):

You you swiped right on the email.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 59s):

Well, it was on a, on a Leather

5 (20m 60s):

Forum track. Very well. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (21m 3s):

I can’t believe that we’ve done over 300 episodes and have not interviewed you or one of your team members. And,

Sean P. Holman (21m 13s):

And by the way, cat’s kid is like the best in the game. I mean, I was just at America’s Most Wanted four by four at their factory out in Michigan. They’re using your stuff. I used your stuff back in the day when I was Truckin Magazine. You go to the Jeep dealer and you get the Mopar upgraded. Leather. It’s Katzkin. Dude,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (21m 29s):

What? I had Katzkin in my mini Cooper. I had Katzkin in my, in my lifted Silverado. I had Katzkin in my Toyota truck. I had Katzkin on. Listen,

Sean P. Holman (21m 37s):

I could go if you go. My God.

5 (21m 39s):

Yeah. This is amazing.

Sean P. Holman (21m 40s):

If you go into your vehicle and you can’t tell whether that fabric, Leather vinyl, plastic Ish stuff that your seat is wrapped in is Leather or not hy, then you need to go get some Katzkin because they got real, real Leather.

5 (21m 54s):

Genuine Leather,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (21m 55s):

Genuine Leather. So we need to rewind the clock a little bit and talk about how Katzkin kind of came to be. I think you need to give us the, the, the screenshot so to speak.

5 (22m 7s):

Sure. I’ll give you the,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 9s):

That was the way back

5 (22m 10s):

Part. Wow. Perfect.

Sean P. Holman (22m 13s):

Miles. Imagine the, if this was a video podcast, 1993 and everything just got real foggy. It, it looked like a glamor shots photo shoot. And that’s where we are now.

5 (22m 23s):

Yes. Well, it was back in 1983, which Katz and his sister Leslie founded Katzkin And. they were making Leather desk accessories now mentioned. His sister were Ken and the last name was Kaz. So they went with Katzkin. Then people, people always ask what’s with the name Mitch Katz and his sister Leslie, that’s where it’s from. And she didn’t really see the business going anywhere, so he bought her out of the company for $1,500. But

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 54s):


Sean P. Holman (22m 54s):

Smart businessman there.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 56s):


Sean P. Holman (22m 58s):

Clearly a

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 60s):


5 (23m 0s):


Sean P. Holman (23m 1s):

Family business that, so what’s Christmas and Thanksgiving like? They’re, they’re dinner table.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (23m 8s):


Sean P. Holman (23m 8s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (23m 8s):

She sees a Katzkin ad she hears,

Sean P. Holman (23m 14s):

I thought it was Thes Drop Bow myself.

5 (23m 16s):

Yeah. And there’s, and there’s mom, you know, why can’t you be more like your brother?

Sean P. Holman (23m 20s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (23m 21s):

Ouch. So he, he then runs with the business Right on. And, and what is he doing at that point?

5 (23m 30s):

He’s just doing Leather accessories. Okay. You know, not like him too, places like Sky Mall, things like that. But he started selling just raw other hides to local in upholstery shops for automotive upholstery shops. And he started realizing that this could work a lot better if he just made the kits, kits for them and sold it to them. So he made one for a 1986 Honda Accord. It was popular. It took off air faster than even he could have imagined. So he just kept growing the business. And I’ll say this about Mitch Katz. He’s, he’s, he’s just a, a g when it comes to making money. The guy doesn’t know how to not make money, make money. He sold Katzkin in 2008. And They went into the drought friendly landscaping.

5 (24m 10s):

And he, he, he, he just makes it over again.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (24m 14s):

Who bought it? And why did they not water it down like so many buyers do. Did you

Sean P. Holman (24m 19s):

Really just go from drought tolerant landscaping to watering it down? I did,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (24m 22s):

I did checking.

5 (24m 24s):

Oh God, it’s a nice one.

Sean P. Holman (24m 25s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (24m 26s):

Done. So how did like So I don’t know. I get who, who was the buyer and were they an investment firm because they clearly have taken a lot of care.

5 (24m 35s):

It’s a private equity firm part of the company earlier on. But he, he sold all of his chairs in it in 2008 to a private equity firm and now owns us. You know, why mess with what’s working. So they just kind leave it alone. They, they help us when they can and have that backing,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (24m 51s):

But that’s not the norm. You know, that miles like so many of course we’re course we’re it happening in the Wheel industry and so many others. Private equity comes in, pools, all the small companies together. And this won’t be the business segment for much longer. But they pull all the companies together. And, They end up thrifting them. Like, all right, we only need one marketing director for all these Wheel companies. They’re like, wait a minute, one’s one makes wheels for lowered cars and then lifted trucks and this And, they like, these are different segments. And, They go. No one guy could do it all. And then they just, you know, one creative director, one marketing director, one production director, blah, blah, blah. And then now all the brands are kind of coalescing together and then people start to leave and form their own companies. That hasn’t happened with Katzkin. It’s stayed kind of true to the roots.

5 (25m 32s):

Well yeah, it has, but partially because you gotta remember that who’s our competitor? Not many people can do what we do. In fact, nobody could. It took, it took 40 years to get to the stage. What we do is incredibly complex. We have to put together an interior from 250 individual parts, specifically made for each individual make and model. And boy that gets really complicated, but a billion different ways of the color combinations we have when we do it all in a 24 hour turnaround. And no one’s been able to figure out how we do it yet. And we’re not telling the secret sauce. And

Sean P. Holman (26m 6s):

Alright, so we, we won’t ask you for the flavor of your secret sauce, but I am curious, you guys have a tremendous amount of customization, to your point. Billions of combinations with piping and Yes. And inserts. And whether you’re going with an alcan terra or suede, whether you’re going with a diamond stitch, Napa style Leather or Yeah, the stitches are different. Double diamond square, all the different things you can do. But the thing that I’m always blown away with is within each vehicle lineup you may have three or four seats. The sport model, the base model, the one that had cloth, you know,

5 (26m 39s):

3 3, 3 or four.

Sean P. Holman (26m 41s):

Yeah. Look at a F-150 rear bench

5 (26m 44s):

Seat. Lemme lemme, lemme, lemme give you, lemme a little bit more. Yeah, yeah. The F-150 currently has in the current model year, 15 different patterns for us. It’s a

Sean P. Holman (26m 52s):

Nightmare. Well well look at the rear seat on an Excel.

5 (26m 55s):

Oh yeah. You have to act, if someone says, oh, I’ve got an F-150, that’s not enough. We do the information. We didn’t enough. Oh, the front seats two buckets or is it a 40 20 40 Or is it a solid bench?

Sean P. Holman (27m 6s):

And if it’s an XLT or less on a crew cab in the back, there’s no armrest. But if you go higher, Larry,

5 (27m 11s):

Is it a super cab? Yep. And and does it have a, an armrest in the rear? Yep. and there is the back plastic or or cloth.

Sean P. Holman (27m 17s):

How many people, there’s so many go to you for a seat cover and then you’re like, well, does it have an armrest or not in the back? Like of course it has an armrest and wrong and then they look And, they go, oh my god, my truck I I have a $60,000 truck, has no rear armrest. I bet that happens a lot. I bet that happens a lot too. Yeah,

5 (27m 33s):

No, we, we try very hard to, to not make those mistakes. You gotta remember we’re not selling windshield wipers and we make a mistake on a windshield. We

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (27m 40s):

No, no, no, no, no, no. Not you. Miles

5 (27m 42s):

Interior. You’re throwing out a, the

Sean P. Holman (27m 44s):

Customer miles.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (27m 45s):

The customer is the one that’s screwing up. The customer thinks they have the armrest. And. they don’t So

Sean P. Holman (27m 50s):

You. And the reason I say that is ’cause I I, it was actually a thing on myself. We had a F-150 when I was at in MotorTrend at Four Wheeler for Four Wheeler of the Year. and I couldn’t believe It was like day seven of have having this truck when I sat in the back and I was like, wait a minute, there’s no armrest. and I’m like, how can you have a truck that’s expensive? There’s a fricking rear arm rest. so that, that’s like I I guarantee you, there’s people I know who never sat in the back of their truck and don’t even know they don’t have a rear arm rest.

5 (28m 15s):

That’s you’re absolutely right. But that’s why there’s, if there’s ever a question, we always ask for a photograph.

Sean P. Holman (28m 20s):

How, how about how about a Jeep Wrangler jl the rear bench on that easy, if you have a cloth seat,

5 (28m 25s):

Easy, you’ve got two. You’ve got exactly. You’ve only got two

Sean P. Holman (28m 28s):

Choices. Two choices. If you have cloth seats, you have no arm rests. And if you have Leather seats, you get the arm rest in the back and Right. But, but a lot of people, they, they don’t know that that’s the distinction. We can go on and on about all the different variations. How about the GM trucks that have the cubby in the rear seat back?

5 (28m 42s):

Oh, even worse. Even worse. Okay. I was gonna say the, the, the Silverados. The Tahoes, yeah. I mean these, the, the Yukons, they, I they’re, they’re, they’re just, they’re not built for aftermarket Leather. That’s for sure.

Sean P. Holman (28m 53s):

So what happens when a new we’re, it’s 2024, we’re in the future, and the, the Homer car comes out and you’re like, oh, everybody’s gonna need Leather in the Homer car. And it comes to the, the Katzkin facility. What do you start with? What do you do? What are the decisions you have to make on what you offer and and how does that process work to get a SKU or something on the website for somebody to choose?

5 (29m 15s):

Well, first Okay. Yeah. The, we don’t really get the cars as easily as that because, you know, OEMs are not exactly forthcoming with their CAD data. We have deals with the local dealerships around town. So if a new homer comes out, we call Montebello Homer and we ask them to borrow the new Homer he’s running

Sean P. Holman (29m 33s):

With. It isn’t. Yeah. I like it. It’s good. It’s good. Montebello Homer was the first dealership. Yeah.

5 (29m 39s):

And we bring that in. We have to reverse engineer it. So we pull off all the, the existing upholstery, tear it apart. We trace it. We, we test fit it, we put it all back together. We create a pattern for it. We, we put a free Leather interior for the dealership. So they get a free Leather interior. They’re happy, we’re happy we get all the data. But now we have to put it all into our system. All this has to determine where the insert is, where the body is, where the combo is, where the wings go. Can it have piping? If not, because of this scene. It all has to be determined at that point. And this is another, and we have to do that. If you’re looking about an F-150, we have to do that 15, 16, 17 times because there’s that, that many interiors.

5 (30m 20s):

And you have to create cut files for them for the automated cutting machines. You have to create hard plastic patterns for hand cutters. You have to, this is why there’s no comp competitors out

Sean P. Holman (30m 30s):

There. Nobody wants to be in a business with labor intensive. Yeah.

5 (30m 34s):

No one wants to do this. And So, you know, we enjoy almost 90% market share.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (30m 42s):

But not only Holman do they do all that. They do it in 24 hours, which is Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (30m 49s):

Bonkers. Well, they don’t do that in 24 hours. But if you were to get your homer and you ordered your custom deal, they would do that in 20.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (30m 55s):

That’s what I’m saying. Yeah, that’s right. That’s correct. I’m looking at the Toyota Tacoma. And by the way, there’s So I. Don’t you have the word? The, the, the, the, the phrase seat covers all over the site. and I feel and I know. That’s gotta drive you crazy because we don don’t like the fact that seat covers are like, it’s the, you buy a seat cover on Amazon, it’s made outta neoprene like wetsuit material. So your dogs don’t screw it all. That’s you, you’re saddled with that term seat covers. ’cause that’s technically what you make. But these are not seat covers. This is, this is a proper Leather interior for your car or your truck. It is a proper Leather

5 (31m 31s):

Policy. Replacement.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (31m 32s):

Replacement. Exactly.

5 (31m 33s):

That’s what we have to do it. But unfortunately, because we live in a digital world and we need to SEO properly, we have to use search terms that score high. That, that, that will get us higher rankings on the Google search.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (31m 47s):

Completely understand So I just for our audience

5 (31m 51s):

Seat covers. Yeah, seat covers is what people search for, even when they’re looking for what we sell.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (31m 57s):

Oh, interesting. Okay. So they’re not typing in full Leather interior or Leather replacement or Leather upgrade. They’re looking for seat covers.

5 (32m 5s):

Right. It’s almost become like Kleenex. Okay. It’s a, people call all tissues Kleenex, So, I starting to call all Leather interior seat covers. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (32m 13s):

I’m on your Toyota Tacoma page. and there are at least five different combinations, not just of colors. There are, oh my gosh, who knows how many colors. But the way you can configure the inset or what is the center section called Miles? Like that’s

5 (32m 28s):

The insert.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (32m 29s):

The insert. Okay. So the insert can be like rectangular panels or they can be elongated panels. They can, you can change the number of panels. You can make that diamond stitch panels or all the stitching. You, you can have it just be very OE looking. Or you can get really custom with, I think you called the wings or the inside of the bolsters with contrasting colors, contrasting stitches, piping, things like that that Holman was speaking about earlier. The customization is so cool. Or if you’re just, if you’re overwhelmed, you can just go, I want That one because you guys, part of your job is coming up with the one that’s really good for like 90% of car buyers.

5 (33m 9s):

Right? That’s what we have. We have a guy named Rami who’s a graduate of the art center here in Pasadena. And he is our chief designer. And he comes up with all those designers. You’re saying,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (33m 18s):

How do you determine which materials are a Katzkin quality? Like this is really gonna stand up to the durability test. It’s the most resistant to cuts and abrasions. Like what kind of testing do you go through and how often do you reject stuff? You’re like, I love that in that it turns out to just be crap quality

Sean P. Holman (33m 35s):

Or You know what the number one thing for us lifted truck guys, driver’s side, lower bolster, getting in and outta your lifted truck and dragging your jeans across it every single time. And a lot of the factory trucks, they’ll start tearing apart right where the little notch or hole is for the seatbelt to come out of. And you’ll start seeing it fray there and usually within the warranty period. And it’s one of those things where you’re like, do I just put the same crappy seat cover from the factory on? Or is this the time that I, I have, I’m now enlightened.

5 (34m 2s):

Well, I think this is what you do. Yeah. That’s what you do. We, you use actually our, our newest material, which is Katzkin xt, we’ve got that available in a few colors now, but this is our toughest Leather and vinyl ever. It’s twice as thick, it’s twice as durable. It’s water resistant. It’s scuff proof. It’s for a lipid truck. It’s perfect for that.

Sean P. Holman (34m 20s):

Hmm. I I don’t know anybody who would have a, a vehicle like that. But that could use that type of technology in there. Maybe

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 27s):

All of our audience now. Miles, you just said a word I’m not familiar with. VV, yeah. V Vinyl.

5 (34m 37s):

Vinyl, yeah. Vinyl’s.

Sean P. Holman (34m 38s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 39s):

No, no, no, no. I’m not saying that. It’s not Okay. Yeah, I wasn’t aware that

Sean P. Holman (34m 42s):

Sometimes you want

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 42s):

It. I wa so it’s called Katzkin Automotive Leather. It’s in their, it’s in their trademark. I didn’t know that you offered vinyl. And when do I want to choose vinyl?

5 (34m 53s):

No, all interiors contain vinyl. Even all the caskets interiors contain matching vinyl.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 59s):


5 (35m 0s):

It’s, that’s the way for several reasons what it’s cost. If you, if you were to get ’em all Leather interior, it would cost two thousands upon thousands of dollars.

Sean P. Holman (35m 9s):

And they’re not gonna put it like the nice Leather around where the, that plastic mat pocket backing is on the seat where it’s just going to tear into it over time. Oh,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (35m 17s):


5 (35m 18s):

Enough. The, the Leather all, everything that touches your body, the entire face of our seats is leathered the cushion, the lean back, the back and the sides are matching vinyls. But you can’t tell, can you, you’ve seen our interior.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (35m 31s):

No, well,

Sean P. Holman (35m 32s):

Here’s the thing is you can get into a new car or truck and you, and they’re like, oh, you got Napa vinyl seating surfaces and you’ll run your finger across that nice perforated butt pocket and then you’ll rub it on the, go around your finger on the side of the bolster. And you can completely tell where the, the Leather ends in plastic ville begins. And on Katzkin, I’ve experienced those seats many, many, many times. And the color match between Leather and vinyl is imperceptible. And the quality of touch is I. I don’t know what the proper test is, if you sniff it or if you scratch it with your fingernail or whatever. But you can’t tell unless you do something weird to your seats. They

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (36m 10s):

Hire, they have a guy that just sniffs.

5 (36m 13s):

And let me tell you, lemme tell you something interesting. This is, see my Leather, when it’s tanned, it’s usually grain free. Most of the time on most leathers, the grain that you see is added with an embossing roller that it rolls that grain on there. Okay. Okay.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (36m 26s):

Didn’t know that

5 (36m 27s):

We use the, we, we, so we use the same embossing roller, but they, to make the vinyl, so the grains are a perfect brand.

Sean P. Holman (36m 35s):

Ah, well they, they feel fabulous.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (36m 39s):

Isn’t that funny? That I feel so cheated all these years. All the Leather that,

5 (36m 42s):

Oh no, remember, no. Hey, you want, I’m sorry, sorry to Ford donors out there, any of your Mustang owners out there. But, but most OEMs and I only use Ford as an example. ’cause I I’ve seen it. The Mustang has, you know, the inserts we’re talking about, the little panels on the inside of the Oh yeah. Lean back and cushion. That’s all that contains Leather in a Ford Mustang.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (37m 3s):


5 (37m 3s):

You get Leather interior. Yeah. They call it a Leather trimmed interior. So those two panels are the only Leather in those, in those mustangs. The one in the driver’s seat and the one in the passenger seat. Whoa, that’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (37m 18s):

Not right. No, it’s not right.

Sean P. Holman (37m 20s):

You’re upset about that, aren’t you?

5 (37m 23s):

It’s another Trend

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (37m 25s):

Leather trim.

Sean P. Holman (37m 26s):

You’ve done something nobody else in the history of the world’s ever been able to do. And that’s to make lightning speechless.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (37m 32s):

I mean, I like, it’s just wordplay. They’re just trying to thrift the interior. It still looks good. I mean, don’t get me wrong, that, that, that must, it does look good. It looks fine and nobody has an issue with it. But I do think that most people just probably assume it’s Leather and good, good on them. You know, good on them. So, what are your most popular truck applications? Is there one that’s just stands out? Is it a Tacoma? Is it an F-150? A Silverado?

5 (37m 59s):

It’s, it’s the domestic trucks. It’s Ram, it’s F-150. It’s Silverado. Those are our top three sales every month, every year now, which is kind of funny. 10 years ago it was Camry and Altima were our top sales.

Sean P. Holman (38m 12s):

Oh, I could see the Altima. They, they all got that really expensive interest rate at, at the Nissan dealer and then got, got the mouth mouse for receipts and they’re like, ah, I saved some money. And then they see their first payment and they’re like, oh,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (38m 25s):

Well, no, no, no. They have no, well, let’s be honest. They have, they have children and the children barf and you can’t get out of that Velure interior.

Sean P. Holman (38m 32s):

All right, I’ve got a, you just can’t, a serious question. So You mentioned Ram, which in the last, you know, few years has had one of the best interiors in the full-size truck. Basically Market. Oh,

5 (38m 43s):


Sean P. Holman (38m 44s):

Love them. So do you see people with mid-grade wanting to have the same level of premium that’s on say a a, you know, a Laramie, Longhorn or something like that, but they couldn’t afford or didn’t

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (38m 55s):

Buy that truck?

5 (38m 56s):

Absolutely. That’s, that’s our, that’s, that’s, that’s the best value. That’s the best way to get Katzkin in most cases. Not just Ram but F-150. But just about every mid-market car out there, if you wanna get Leather usually comes packaged with the luxury package or something like that. And it’s, it’s six seven i, this has $12,000, you know, for on an F-150 to get the package that has the Leather in it. Well get the lower end model and just put Leather in every basket will save you $10,000 off the top. So,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (39m 26s):

So which brings us to I guess price. I I think when you think of a, a Leather interior, all of it again, not just seat covers a full makeover of your interior, of your truck. What are we talking ballpark and I realize that there’s a lot of variables, but generally speaking Miles. Yeah. What are we looking at?

5 (39m 45s):

Two, two grand.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (39m 47s):


5 (39m 47s):

That’s installed.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (39m 48s):

Crazy. Wait, what?

5 (39m 51s):

That’s installed.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (39m 53s):

Wow. Now is that in? Yeah. Is that installed by some crazy random dealer or is that installed by your new trucks? That drive to my house.

Sean P. Holman (40m 3s):

I feel like Lighting’s been waiting for this all day.

5 (40m 6s):

We’re we’re piloting that at that program. Right. And it seems to be very popular. Yeah. The van, the van’s pretty impressive looking. Yeah, it’s an entire restyle shop right in the back of the van. That’s pretty amazing. But yeah, that, that, that these are being installed by professional upholsters that, that we ve before we make them a customer.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (40m 23s):

I actually went to one of those and he was in Upland. He had Mercedes, he had a Bentley, he had some antique vintage vehicles and he was installing a Katzkin in, in one of my buddy’s cars. So he’s doing these bespoke interiors and he was one was for like a rock star. He was crazy, crazy money. And right next to it is a Katzkin interior that looks the same. One was probably a $20,000 interior. And then here’s the Katzkin at two grand And. they were not to steal a word from earlier, but imperceptibly different. Really, really neat

5 (40m 57s):

I. Haven’t heard that comparison. That’s great.

Sean P. Holman (40m 59s):

So, I. I’m curious, when you guys do your seat covers and your patterns, is there anything special that you add into it? Is there, can somebody add a heating element? Can they add a little more bolstering at the time? Is there any option? Somebody who

5 (41m 14s):

No, we, we, we match all the foams. Okay. But, and we, we, we are restricted in some cases. You gotta remember the way these covers attach to the, the foam and the, and the seat underneath that. Some of ’em have list listing wires and, and KROQ channels. And all of that has to be accounted for in the pattern. If there’s a scene here in the original pattern, it’s because this is where a listing wire is and we can’t remove that because that listing wire is actually holding that part of the seat to the seat. That part of the cupboard of the seat.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (41m 47s):

I think Holman was trying to get at your degrees line by Katzkin degrees. By

5 (41m 52s):

The degrees line. Yes. By degrees. Yes. That’s, that’s our heating and cooling system. It’s actually quite phenomenal. I have to say the the heating element is perfect. It’s, I mean, heated seats are heated seed. The technology’s pretty where it’s gonna be. But the cooling system on our degrees unit is, is remarkable. It’s not, it’s not just a fan blowing ambient air around. It’s actually there’s a cooling unit that actually lowers the ambient air by 15 degrees before it’s blown up.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 20s):

Is it charged with not fon of course, but whatever the not Fon. What do you what? I love that

Sean P. Holman (42m 25s):

Technical term. Is it charged with not Fon? No. Well,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 27s):

I don’t know what’s what’s the It’s the, it’s like WD 40 You. know what I’m saying? It’s, it’s it’s letters and numbers. Yeah. I don what is it? What’s the cooler that every air conditioning uses today? R 1 34 A I’m R one 30. Whatever it iss. I’m not sure.

5 (42m 39s):

Yeah, don don’t know I. I’m a creative director. I don’t do

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 42s):

I. don know, but I I figure. You’re in all the meetings, you hear stuff like that. It’s charged with something. It makes it cooler. don don’t know.

5 (42m 48s):

Yeah. Whatever it Whatever it is. It works, it makes it cooler and blows it up. And then that’s all I care about when I turn it on. Three levels of cooling, three levels of heating.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 57s):

Alright. So, You offer the degree. So they, if they have a work truck, they’re upgrading to Leather, they can actually add a heating and cooling system to the package. Absolutely. It comes with everything. It comes with the, the, the cooling unit that’s in the back of the seat. So from bottom and the back, which is really cool. Yep. And it can obviously, it comes with the controls just like they look like OE controls that you’d find in the door or the dashboard, which is super cool. How often have you been asked to create an interior and then you’ve refused? ’cause it’s either like it’s too ugly or like the color combinations they want, I want pink and purple side by side and you’re like, I can’t put a Katzkin tag on that seat.

5 (43m 35s):

The answer to that is never we will make anything you ask for. Wow. We’ve made some ugly ones. We’ve made recently, recently there was purple lime, green and orange, which

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (43m 49s):


Sean P. Holman (43m 49s):

I would love to see that interior on Lightning’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (43m 52s):

T Rx, which

Sean P. Holman (43m 54s):

When he comes asking for new seats

5 (43m 57s):

And then he decided to put diamond stitching, I guess. Wow. Oh my lord.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (44m 3s):


5 (44m 4s):

Much. This thing means diamond snitching. Oh man.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (44m 7s):

Now you’re not doing crazy like limousines or that type of thing. you do. No, no, no. Market Because, You are looking at market for us. Yeah, yeah. You’re looking at economies of scale. You’re gonna take your corollas, your Tacoma, your F-150, things like that. Right. And that’s where Correct. Absolutely. You’ve honed those. So how often you get asked for a, a truck that you don’t have an application for and you’re like, You know what? That’s an interesting one. I’ll get back to you. And then you actually produce it within a couple of months and call the dude back and go, we got one for you.

5 (44m 36s):

We actually have a program we call Express. So SEW this is a program where if we don’t have something, if you have a 66 Impala or something that we don’t have, send us the seats. We’ll reverse engineer, make you make you a cover.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (44m 51s):


5 (44m 52s):

Kidding. If you take up to four weeks, four, six weeks and it’s 5,000 bucks,

Sean P. Holman (44m 57s):

But’s still a deal.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (44m 58s):

That’s still a deal. A lot less money than taking it to, I would assume that’s again, I know guys paying more than 10 grand for custom interiors.

5 (45m 6s):

Right. And we don’t get too many takers on it, but you know, we, we, we have people there that are expert sewers that will figure it out. It’s, it’s a, it’s a new program we just started this year.

Sean P. Holman (45m 16s):

Now I have seen the process of putting seat covers on or taking off the, the factory fabrics and replacing them. Knowing that, would you recommend the average person order your kit and try this themselves if they’ve never held a set of hog

5 (45m 32s):

Wires? Never. N no. Never

Sean P. Holman (45m 34s):

Figured. That might be your answer.

5 (45m 36s):

See there’s, it’s not like installing a turbocharger or something where you You know what exactly what to do. Okay. With there’s so much finesse involved. You’ve seen it when you know you have to karate chop things into channels and you have to pull and tug and stretch and, and really you have to have the experience to know this particular type of foam from Nissan is different from the foam over here from Ford. So we gotta make sure this, you know, there’s so much involved in installing these kits. Even guys that do it every day, five days a week, it takes six hours to four to six hours to install.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (46m 10s):

And the last thing Katzkin wants is for their interior that they know looks good,

Sean P. Holman (46m 15s):

Know that they know fits. Oh

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (46m 17s):

Yeah. They know when it’s, when it’s on their

Sean P. Holman (46m 19s):

Crooked and Exactly.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (46m 20s):

They know it looks perfect when it’s installed properly, otherwise, yeah, they don’t want some janky representation of this, you know. No,

5 (46m 28s):

No, no. Dad don’t, don’t ever do that. It’s, it’s like you won’t be happy with it. You’ll, you’ll swear and curse the whole time. It’s, it’s not a fun job.

Sean P. Holman (46m 35s):

So it’s fair to say that if you are somebody who is interested in, in upgrading their interior, make sure that in your budget you put in for somebody to install it, otherwise your, your happiness level will be much lower.

5 (46m 47s):

Absolutely. And if you go to our site and you buy, if you buy directly from us on our website through our retail department installations included in all the prices.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (46m 55s):

Oh, no kidding. Okay, that’s good. Awesome. So Miles, someone goes to the website, they go to Katzkin dot com and by the way, that’s K-A-T-Z-K-I-N Katzkin dot com. You hit the start button, looks like a starter on your car and you basically, it walks you through the process year, make model, right. You choose the pattern, right? And then you start, then you choose the colors. Correct?

5 (47m 16s):

Yeah. You can choose some of the designs that are already there. Or at the bottom of the page is a design your own button. So. You can click on That one. If you just pick one of those pre-design, you just click on that and you choose that design. It’ll take you to, to a page. It’ll actually put in your zip code, find re stylers near you. Gotcha. Or you can call Katzkin directly.

Sean P. Holman (47m 35s):

I’m actually building a full interior right now while you’re talking to lighting. Just to prove

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (47m 38s):

How, in what vehicle,

5 (47m 40s):


Sean P. Holman (47m 40s):

Do you think yours? Am I 3 92? Of course.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (47m 43s):

I don’t know. I’m

Sean P. Holman (47m 44s):

Not gonna build your, well actually I was building yours with like bright orange.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (47m 47s):

How dare you.

Sean P. Holman (47m 48s):

That that way. I. I. Wanna see somebody? See that nice black truck? Yes. Oh, could you imagine? You opened that black truck.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (47m 55s):

It’s lime green. Oh,

Sean P. Holman (47m 58s):

No offense to anybody who likes Lime Green Interiors. But that’s, that’s definitely not my jam. I’ve seen

5 (48m 2s):

Worse. I’ve seen worse. Alright,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (48m 4s):

Well listen, you guys need to check out Katzkin dot com because I know some of you have some rank interiors that just really need upgrading. Well, you’re just,

Sean P. Holman (48m 13s):

I would, I was gonna also add real quick, when you’re building out your seat covers and your design, I know there’s a lot of people who get really nervous about, oh man, I, I’m not a designer. I, don’t know how to pick and choose the colors. If you wanna have fully custom, they will do that for you. But they also have like 20 or 30 just patterns that are already done where it’s a mix of diamond stitching or inserts or fabric changes and colors. And you can say, I like the way this one looks. That’s already on the website. And then change the materials and colors accordingly for what you want to do. So they make it really easy. Whether you feel like you’re an interior designer or you’re somebody who just wants nicer seats. Either way, the website’s super helpful and we’ll, we’ll get you going on that.

Sean P. Holman (48m 54s):

So it’s, it’s really user friendly.

5 (48m 57s):

Wow. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Sean P. Holman (48m 59s):

Hey. All right. Nice.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (49m 1s):

Alright, miles, it’s been way too long since we, we’ve caught up and I think, depending on when this episode airs, we’ve either seen you at sema at Seima

Sean P. Holman (49m 10s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (49m 10s):

Or we’re about to see you. We’re

5 (49m 13s):

Perfect. Alright. Exactly.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (49m 15s):

All right. Well you’re doing the Lord’s work over there, making the best interiors in town. So thank you very much. Thank you

5 (49m 22s):

Gentlemen, brother. Alright. Much appreciated.

Sean P. Holman (49m 23s):

Yeah, thanks for your time. We’ll,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (49m 24s):

We’ll catch up. Thanks Holman. Before we get into Truck News, I need to share a real quick story with you. So. You. Were out in the desert in Mojave a couple of weeks ago and you had an opportunity to use your anti-gravity. Microstar, yep. Right. The battery pack and I did the jump pack. Well, guess what I did?

Sean P. Holman (49m 46s):

Used yours

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (49m 47s):

Killed my battery in the TRX. I don’t know how. Came out after I was gone for a week, hadn’t driven it I. think I either left my Phoenix PA system on or I don’t know what. But with the push button start, if the voltage is too low, it just doesn’t even attempt to start. It’s not like a key where you can kind of force it over. Ain’t no forcing it over and it’s five 50 in the morning. Okay. ’cause I wanted to be early to work. I’m freaking out. I did not realize that I had the micro start. I get in my garage, I, I get in the toolbox. I pull up my big old battery charger, like old school from like 1989 that my father gave me. And I’m about to hook it up. I’m like, what am I doing?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50m 28s):

I had to plug into the wall and all that. and I like, I have, I got this anti gravity, this one. Boom. Plugged it in, started it. I remember what you said. You started That one Jeep like four or five times and it was only down like 20%. The Tacoma. The Tacoma. Okay. But my battery is smoked. It’s completely deep cycled dead. I started it with the Microstar. It only goes down to like 92%. Just like it was not, It was like, eh, no big thing. Like no big thing.

Sean P. Holman (50m 56s):

What was that?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50m 58s):

It just started right up. So listen.

Sean P. Holman (50m 60s):

No, no, no. Not, not the fact that it started right up. I expected that I did not expect whatever the no weird inflection was with

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (51m 6s):

No big thing.

Sean P. Holman (51m 8s):

Oh my God. Who are you? Just like punchy. ’cause you’re on the sea of crunch right now. Yes. Yeah. All right, let’s, let’s talk about something that will excite our listeners. And that’s all the fricking news going on right now.

9 (51m 19s):

What’s new in trucks? We need to know what’s in trucks. We need to know what’s new in trucks.

4 (51m 27s):

We need to know lifted, lowered and everything in between. What’s happening in the world of trucks?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (51m 34s):

Ah. Oh, that was good. that was a good one. Yeah, that was good. I felt like the compressors sucked it up right at the, at the very end. Alright,

Sean P. Holman (51m 41s):

So I’m gonna tell you a story now of a bit of fortune. For those of you who are based in SoCal and love the LA Auto Show, we at OVR Magazine have inked a deal to have a, an outside space of about 12,000 square feet with about 10 to 12 vehicles or so we thought. And so we were gonna be at the auto show and have this OVR display right, where everybody buys their tickets, it goes in the convention center and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (52m 10s):

The LA Auto Show is massive. Yeah. And it is right after SEMA every year.

Sean P. Holman (52m 14s):

Yep. It’s, it goes for two weeks leading up to the Thanksgiving weekend, which is the last weekend. And then the United Auto Workers strike struck and Stellantis pulls out of both SEMA and the Elliot Auto Show taking Camp Jeep with them. No, no, no, no. It’s not a sad trombone. Oh really? Because the Elliot Auto Show came back to us and said, we have 24,000 square feet inside between Subaru and Hyundai. Would you guys like to move indoors and can you fill it with 30 vehicles? And we said, you bet we can. So if anybody wants to go to the LA Auto Show this year, it’ll be, so anyway, it, it will run from the, I believe it’s November 17th, all the way through Sunday, November 26th.

Sean P. Holman (53m 1s):

So please stop by and, and check out OVR in person. You’ll be able to subscribe. We’re doing daily giveaways. We have a ton of great companies that if you sign up with us, you’ll get a chance to win and basically wanna show you who we are in person. So just shout out to my guys on the OVR side because what a coup, and I’m not gonna lie, there’s a little bit of satisfaction that we are at one of the top three auto shows in the country, in the backyard of some other people I used to know. And until this podcast, they’re, they’re not aware that we have a booth space

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 33s):

About seven times larger than anything they’ve ever had.

Sean P. Holman (53m 36s):

I, I, I I didn’t say that. I’m just saying that I did. It’s just cool that we will be right there on the floor and sometimes, you know, the sun shines on your butt and you should take

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 47s):

Wait. The sun shines on your butt.

Sean P. Holman (53m 48s):

Yeah. Okay. That’s my, that’s my saying. All right. Hey Lighting, did you hear?

10 (53m 54s):

I don’t watch the news ’cause I’m a kid,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 57s):

So No I. Don’t think so. So I

Sean P. Holman (53m 59s):

Heard about this last night through Friends at Dinner and I’m like, nah, I don Dunno if that really sounds like a thing. And then the press release came out today and I went, it’s a thing. and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 12s):


Sean P. Holman (54m 12s):

Went, oh, there’s a company well known in the industry called Wheel Pros, USA

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 16s):

Oh Hogan.

Sean P. Holman (54m 18s):

And they are changing their entire company name to

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 21s):


Sean P. Holman (54m 22s):

And they put out this press release today filled with a bunch of big words. and I kind of thought, that seems like an odd choice. So in their press release they said, oh, well we’re not, you know, Wheel Pros is never designed to be a consumer facing brand, but Hogan, but I feel like Hogan is not product, it’s entertainment or it’s a lifestyle. So. I think it’s just, to me it’s a weird fit.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 44s):

So yeah, as Holman said, Wheel Pros, we’ve talked about it before on the show. Ho Wheel Pros is like, man, I’m just gonna guess 25, 30 Wheel brands, all the popular ones from Fuel Wheels to all of ’em. This is all of ’em. All of ’em, right. American

Sean P. Holman (54m 58s):

Racing, if

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 58s):

You go to Wheel

Sean P. Holman (54m 59s):

Pros, KMC Right? All

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55m 0s):

That for sure. MHT, all that stuff. S if you go to Wheel, it’s like a never ending scroll of brands. Yeah. It’s truly incredible. And it’s owned by a group of investors, right. Private equity And.

Sean P. Holman (55m 12s):

They, they recently acquired four Wheel parts and then that kind of changed the dynamic of a bunch of things. And and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55m 18s):

Last year they bought Hogan. Yep. Which everyone said, Ooh, well wait a minute. Yep. That’s interesting. They, this is a Wheel company that just bought an entertainment company.

Sean P. Holman (55m 27s):

Right. And so now according to the press release, this is one of the things that I kind of pulled out. He says, this is from Randy White. The CEO says, historically, Wheel Pros was not designed to be a prominently recognized name in the consumer market. Which I honestly thought Wheel Pros was a, a good name. But okay, I get it. By bringing all of our brands together under the Hogan name, we opened new opportunities to elevate each brand in the eyes of our consumer. This is the part that I was like, Ooh, okay, we’ll see the specifics of how this integration will manifest may differ for each of us making it imperative to consider a well thought out strategy for each brand we manage. But together we’re Hogan and I was kind of, wait, what? I’m like So You. Don’t know how you’re gonna integrate your brand. Like, it just seems like kind of like they made the decision and then not everything is, you know, totally sorted out.

Sean P. Holman (56m 12s):

And obviously with Ken Block passing away recently, you know, he’s the North star obviously for Hogan. that was, that was his jam. And so

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (56m 20s):

Yeah, well Brian Scotto and he were partners. Brian Scotto originally came from the hip hop world and started Hogan with Ken Block. And now Brian Scotto I believe is the creative director over all the brands from what I understand. Yes. Maybe, maybe that’s wrong, but that’s what I heard.

Sean P. Holman (56m 35s):

Alright, so basically, you know, it says that the press release Hogan was the originally the brainchild of Ken Block, a visionary and pioneer in the racing world. Nas Hogan, the company intends to honor and build upon block’s important legacy of leading a trailblazing community driven by passion for motorsports and the enthusiast community. And then they gave the new vision statement, which is we provide the passion that keeps dreams in motion. So anyway, whether you like it or not, don don’t know what to think about it. I just, it seems kind of weird. I thought Wheel Pros

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 1s):

I I got the inside track on that I Don don’t know, a week or two ago. Okay. And I’ve kind of kept quiet on that. I I leaked it to a couple of people and said, you can’t share this. And half the people said, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. And the other half said, that’s a brilliant marketing move. But

Sean P. Holman (57m 18s):

Is it,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 20s):

It remains to be seen. Yeah. Like, forget our opinions.

Sean P. Holman (57m 23s):

So, I’ve been a part of a bunch of rebrandings in my career, five or six. And it always seems like it’s a bandaid for something else. And sometimes it’s not necessary. Sometimes just a new company wants to show people that it’s new. But I think it really confuses the consumer more. So I don’t know. Like I feel like Hogan should have been a sideshow or a side, not a shy sideshow in a negative sense, but like a side stage for the entertainment using all the Wheel Pros products. I

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 47s):

Wonder if Hogan the name will overshadow its own brands. That’s, that’s

Sean P. Holman (57m 50s):

What I’m saying is I I. I. Wonder how being an entertainment company drives product sales. So Don don’t know. It’s just, it’s an interesting move. I saw it come across today. It ballsy. Super ballsy. Definitely ballsy. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we’ll see at SEMA how the branding works out, right? ’cause they’ve got a giant booth from what I understand.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (58m 5s):

So that’s the crazy thing is Wheel Pros has not been famously Yeah. Has been absent from se the SEMA show in in maybe a decade, something like crazy like that. And now they’re coming with I heard like 80,000 square feet or something. Massive. Massive. Yeah. That’s a lot. Yeah. They’re doing the whole out front section where Ford used to do and all that stuff. And it’s gonna be quite a scene.

Sean P. Holman (58m 27s):

Cool. All right. Hey Lightning. Have you heard

11 (58m 29s):

What? No.

Sean P. Holman (58m 31s):

Well I’ve heard, and there is a clip of the new 2025 Ram T Rx driving around and ain’t got no V eight in it.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (58m 42s):

No, it don’t. So

Sean P. Holman (58m 43s):

For all you folks out there who are kind of like, no, but it’s gonna forever be a V will die. And I’ve been telling you the hurricane high output is coming to the T Rx. Here’s the other thing I’ll say. There was a report of a engineer from Stellantis doing an interview who said that engine is going to be a crate motor and it’s capable of a thousand horsepower. You can hear it sucking the turbos. That is, and if you think about it, it’s sort of like the Chrysler version of like a two Jay-Z Sorry, don’t hit me Scott. I know you two Jay-Z people are like, nothing compares but straight six Turbocharged a thousand horsepower. Sounds like it all fits to me. They have not announced what the power output is.

Sean P. Holman (59m 24s):

What if they shock everybody and it’s like 710 horsepower?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (59m 29s):

It’s certainly possible

Sean P. Holman (59m 30s):

Don don’t know that they’ll do it. And

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (59m 31s):

We, we’ve seen huge horsepower coming from twin turbo engines in straight sixties. Well,

Sean P. Holman (59m 36s):

And four hasn’t announced Raptor R for 20 fours power yet either.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (59m 40s):

Yeah, but And, they hinted that

Sean P. Holman (59m 41s):

That there’s something, that

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (59m 42s):

There’s something that they’re gonna come with more power So.

Sean P. Holman (59m 44s):

What if they’re like, oh, competition’s got a straight six, whatever we’re gonna do 705 horsepower. And then what if the new T Rx is like seven 50 and you’re like, damn. You know, that would be funny. Now there are benefits. I mean, here’s some of the things that straight six is more fuel efficient. It’s perfectly balanced, lot less weight on the front end. So You get better suspension performance. So, I. Think there’s some cool things, even though I would miss the whale of the V eight and I. Don’t know if you’ve got that sound clip from that video, but you should play it. It it, it is basically the T Rx taking off from a stoplight