Chuck Foreman from Pro Eagle joins the guys in-studio to talk about the company’s line of premium jacks and how they invented the rugged jack market, two stories make us question humankind, and listeners check in on the Five Star Hotline. The Truck Show Podcast is proudly presented by Nissan in association with Banks Power and AMSOIL.


The following transcription of The Truck Show Podcast was generated using a speech recognition software, and will contain errors. Please review the timestamp and listen to the corresponding audio for accuracy. 

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Jay “Lightning” Tilles (0s):

Holman, are you going to apologize for being a little late to this episode?

Sean P. Holman (4s):

No, I’m not gonna apologize because I was out getting premium content for The Truck Show Podcast,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9s):

Please explain.

Sean P. Holman (11s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (14s):

Do you want me to cut this part out? Is this embargoed? Is it secret? What’s

Sean P. Holman (18s):

Embargoed? We can’t talk about till next week.

2 (21s):


Sean P. Holman (22s):

I can tell you this. I was in the desert Hucking, a 720 horsepower truck over crest at about 70 miles an hour. Okay,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (32s):

So wait a minute. This is not the TRX. That’s 7 0 2 and the Raptor is seven. Oh, is this the new Raptor with the upgrade? More horsepower.

Sean P. Holman (41s):

I was just in the desert driving a truck doing stuff.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (44s):

Hmm. It’s the Raptor R. Interesting.

Sean P. Holman (47s):

Can’t talk about it till next week. So moving right along.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50s):

All right, well this show is over. We’ll talk to you guys in a week. Nope,

Sean P. Holman (53s):

We are all sorts of content.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55s):

This is the next week show now?

Sean P. Holman (56s):

Nope. This

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57s):

Show is airing a week after.

Sean P. Holman (59s):

No, you’re confusing people.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (60s):

No, I am.

Sean P. Holman (1m 0s):

Just, let’s just do a show. Let’s do a show and the next week we’ll do another show. And when we do that other show, we can do stuff with

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 6s):

It. Alright? Okay. That’s fine. Alright. I do wanna say thank you however for having some nice lawn furniture in the backyard because our friend Chuck Foreman from Pro Eagle is relaxing in your yard.

Sean P. Holman (1m 18s):

Yeah. You you were like, we can have a podcast to in your yard. I’m like, they have a place to sit here. There’s a nice patio. We can turn on the, the fireplace out there. It’d be great. He

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 27s):

Rolled in and he is like, should I have brought some meat and some stuff to barbecue? Yeah, because he’s got a barbecue over here. That would’ve been

Sean P. Holman (1m 33s):

Yeah, definitely. Our, our kind of

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 34s):

Guy. And it looks like he brought his wife Jennifer, so

Sean P. Holman (1m 36s):

We’ll, we’ll, we’ll have them in here in a little bit. But we, we gotta get through the beginning of the show. And that was my, my recent trip to go do stuff I can’t talk about yet. Wow.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 46s):


Sean P. Holman (1m 47s):

Hmm. But. I’m looking forward to talking about it when I can. Don’t

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 50s):

Like the tease.

Sean P. Holman (1m 51s):

If you don’t like the tease and you need a new truck right now, then you need to head on down to your local Nissan dealer where you can check out the Nissan Frontier. So the 2024 Nissan Frontier. I’m partial to the Pro four XI know you like the hard body, the basic entry

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 6s):

Level. Wait, hold on. Wait, wait. You’re, you’re painting me the like as if don don’t like the hard the the Pro four X?

Sean P. Holman (2m 10s):

No, no. We’re just saying that you like the hard body. You like that retro vibe?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 14s):

I do. I love the wheels. I love the color scheme and I’m not typically a fan of like headache racks even though I’m building one or like tubular stuff. But that, I gotta tell you, it works on that truck really well. It

Sean P. Holman (2m 27s):

Works well on that truck with a retro vibe. And you can pick a frontier up starting at $30,510. You can build and price at Nissan usa dot com and Lighting. I I heard you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 40s):

When You about what, when You

Sean P. Holman (2m 41s):

Slid in your, your headache rack. Yeah, the whole thing. I said you should do a headache rack and you said no and then you’re building one anyway. Yeah. So are you ready to divulge that or is that under embargo also?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 51s):

It is not under

2 (2m 53s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 54s):

As matter of fact, I’m gonna open up a photo ’cause Mr. Matt just sent me a text. He’s still at work late into the evening working on a headache rack for me. And let me show you a picture of the beds. We got some CAD from sema. I got the bed and the back quarter of the cab and lemme show you this thing. So what do you think of that? That is better. It’s, it’s better. So it’s gonna be box aluminum. It, we’re going to, he’s gonna design it all out so it can be bent and look really good and we’re gonna send it to a send cut send and they’re gonna send it back to me in pieces. And then I’m gonna beg one of our

Sean P. Holman (3m 25s):

To weld it and that’ll be the next bank’s product.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 29s):

No, you might be interested to learn that our friends at EGR are interested in potentially mass producing this

Sean P. Holman (3m 35s):

That, well it’s perfect because that dovetails into their todo cover, so that could be a good thing. It Do you get royalty on that?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 42s):

Don? Don’t really want one. I just think

Sean P. Holman (3m 43s):

That’s not true. I know you,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 45s):

I’m really, I thi I don’t care. Matt, however, has spent some hours working on this. I think it might be nice to give Matt a little some something. You know, the guys at EGR interested in seeing what we come up with. ’cause it’s gonna slot right into the roll track. So we’ll see how this comes out and if it protects some back windows from being smashed, it also hopefully will provide me with some, if I wanna put lights up on top or whatever, we’ll see. don don’t know how that’s gonna work out yet, but,

Sean P. Holman (4m 8s):

Alright. Well, in the meantime, if you wanna get something from banks that’s officially sanctioned, you can go to banks power dot com and what can you purchase Lightning?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 15s):

Man, I wish we could talk about the stuff we have coming because I, man, we have some really cool stuff coming and we made a crazy discovery while we were developing a video on one of the new products. And it’s going to, it’s going to, you know what we did when we launched the diff cover video series? Yes. And everyone said, no way. I never thought about it that way. I never looked at differential covers that way before. We are doing this for another product that I can’t see what it is. And it’s, it’s,

Sean P. Holman (4m 46s):

It’s something everybody has on their vehicle. It’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 48s):

Literally, it’s something that you can’t have an engine without this, an engine won’t run without this thing Really we’re, yes. We found an issue, an error, a problem with a lot of trucks that, and this is gonna solve it. And I’m so excited and I can’t say anything ’cause I’m actually under Fargo. I’m under embargo.

Sean P. Holman (5m 8s):

All right, well that doesn’t help sell products.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 10s):

Help today doesn’t. Okay. So something you can get in on is a Ram Air rear differential cover.

Sean P. Holman (5m 14s):

Well, I thought you were gonna say the monster Ram because it actually flows more than stock, unlike your ripoff companies that are flowing. Oh, do you hear what? Oh, do you hear I Heard? that story? I just thought maybe you might wanna plug it. Well,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 23s):

They don’t know that story because I’ve kind of kept that under wrap all. Well then

Sean P. Holman (5m 26s):

Listen, do

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 26s):

You want me to tell the story? Can I tell the story?

Sean P. Holman (5m 28s):

No, no, no. Let’s wait.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 29s):

You sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a

Sean P. Holman (5m 30s):

Good story. Yeah, I know. Let’s wait, let’s wait.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 32s):

So do you want me to plug diff covers here?

Sean P. Holman (5m 34s):

Diff cover’s. Great. Go.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 36s):

If you’ve got a, if you’ve got a Chevy Silverado, a 2500 3500, or you got a Ram 2,500 or a 3,500 or maybe a Ford F two 50, go over to banks power dot com. Type in your year, make and model and find the bank’s Ram air rear differential. Cover that out. Cools all high capacity, flat back covers all your PPEs and Etss and Mag High takes and out cools all of them. And does so with the factory fill level, you don’t have to buy eight quarts to just to get a, a few degrees cooler Nope. Factory fill level that’ll keep your gears lasting much longer. Easy peasy banks power dot com to get yours. Hey Holman, what’s up with Amsoil?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 16s):


Sean P. Holman (6m 17s):

I was on their website, amsoil dot com and I was trying to find out if, if they make hydraulic jack oil.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 24s):

I know they have a lot of hydraulic fluids. But I don’t know if they make jack oil. Well they,

Sean P. Holman (6m 30s):

’cause I I know Chucks coming on and we’re gonna talk about how you can buy a Pro Eagle jack and then rebuild it from scratch and it lasts forever.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 37s):

We have h we have the AM oil hydraulic fluid.

Sean P. Holman (6m 41s):

What, what if that’s the same?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 42s):

It might be, huh? I mean, literally all of our air tools run on AM oil at banks.

Sean P. Holman (6m 46s):

Well, it’s pretty amazing when You go to their website, you can find everything from motor oil, engine lubricants, compressor oil, fuel additives, transmission fluid

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 54s):

Gun oil gear

Sean P. Holman (6m 54s):

Oil gun oil bearing and chassis grease filters, steering, brake and suspension fluid antifreeze and coolant cleaners and protectants and barn chain oil. I mean, it’s not, I think when You think of Amil, you think of oil changes and you think of putting trend fluid in or di fluid or motor oil. Right. And there’s so much more. Can

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 11s):

I tell you that my favorite glass cleaner

Sean P. Holman (7m 14s):

Is an oil glass cleaner.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 15s):

Literally glass cleaner. Yes. They, they make some great stuff. But my, my favorite product that they make, well no, that’s gonna be a tow because I love the five W 40 signature series. A hundred percent synthetic. Well, but truly my favorite one is mudslinger. Do you know what Mudslinger is? Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (7m 27s):

Mudslinger is something you spray on your UTV or Trek before you go out.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 31s):

No, my, all my inside of my fenders. Dude, it keeps

Sean P. Holman (7m 33s):

All that, keeps all that dirt from sticking.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 35s):

And whenever you’re doing a photo shoot, you spray mud slinger on everything that’s black and it turns it shiny and brand new looking.

Sean P. Holman (7m 42s):

If you have any lubrication needs for your vehicle, head over to amwell dot com and check out their line of synthetic products. Am oil number one in synthetics

3 (7m 52s):

The truck show. We’re gonna show you what we know. We’re gonna answer What The truck. Because truck rides with The truck show. We have the lifted We. have the lowered and everything in between. We’ll talk about trucks that run on diesel and the ones that run on gasoline. The truck show. The truck show. The truck show.

4 (8m 23s):

It’s The truck show with your hosts. Lightning and Holman.

Sean P. Holman (8m 29s):

Alright, I think we should probably bring Chuck in here because he’s been waiting and all.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 35s):

Hold on,

3 (8m 35s):

I got Cubs up. Come on in.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 43s):

Alright, so

Sean P. Holman (8m 44s):

I have you sit over here and then Chuck will sit right there. And then your mic is gonna be here. Holman,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 49s):

This is weird. We have someone in studio again. There

Sean P. Holman (8m 52s):

Are two people in studio. Well,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 53s):

They’re, so first we have Chuck Foreman of Pro Eagle, which I’m very excited to speak to because I ran into him at a, an event about three weeks or so ago. Yeah. And he’s like, Hey, I think I’m gonna be on your show. I go, what

Sean P. Holman (9m 5s):

Is this the same chuck foreman that we’ve been trying to chase down that you and I have been talking about? Like we should have Pro Eagle on,

6 (9m 10s):

I feel like,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 10s):

For four years. But we didn’t do a very good job of actually reaching out and asking for you.

Sean P. Holman (9m 14s):

I think it was FI think it was follow up. Well, what happened was we had OVR and then we got in a conversation and then I was like, Hey, by the way, I’m the old Four Wheeler guy, so I know your stuff. And oh, and I have this podcast too. He is like, I think I’ve heard of it. I’m like, so anyway, it all, it all came together. It

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 30s):

Was so funny that though Chuck, I think you were talking to Sean and you were talking to me independently and you didn’t know that we were working together.

Chuck Foreman (9m 36s):

I did not know. No, not at all. That’s even

Sean P. Holman (9m 37s):

Better. Yeah,

Chuck Foreman (9m 38s):

I told my wife, I was like, I, you know what, I found this DM and you know, in my request and you know, I’m looking back through and I’m like, I need to re follow up with this conversation.

Sean P. Holman (9m 48s):

And here we are.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 49s):

I know. And Chuck, you brought some your, your lovely wife over here, Jennifer. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. How did you convince her to come down to the pod shed?

Sean P. Holman (9m 57s):

Oh, I was gonna say, how did he convince her to marry him? Well, well that was But. I took more work. She just looked at our, our gift shelf. And I think she was appalled by what she saw up there.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 6s):

She was eyeing my cyber truck. Well

Sean P. Holman (10m 8s):

There’s the 3D printed thing in the back of the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 11s):

Yeah. Oh, the wiener with the hat on. Yes. Crown. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (10m 15s):

Shouldn’t even notice that part

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 16s):

Rides and the Abe Lincoln. There’s a bunch of weird stuff over

Sean P. Holman (10m 19s):

There. Yeah. It’s just a mishmash of things our listeners have, have given us over the years. So. All

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 23s):

Right, well we need to welcome everyone to the parts department. Don’t move.

6 (10m 26s):

Welcome to the parts department. Screw nut filter oil grill tools, the pull depart wheels, tires, brakes, lights gears, bells the department. And your wife warns you not to don do spend that money and then you wanna come back.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 49s):

Did she warn us?

Sean P. Holman (10m 50s):

Well, I mean, listen, I wanna spend my money. Yep. And I thank you for the special delivery that weighed 4,000 pounds. I haven’t even had a chance to open it. But I. And I took pictures. So there’ll be a little social post that goes up. But on my doorstep was a Pro Eagle jack for Oh really? OVR Testing science, doing science stuff with it.

Chuck Foreman (11m 10s):

I talked to my guys in the warehouse. I’m like, Hey, this has to go out. I’m on a show in a few days. Like this has to get processed and get sent out.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 16s):

Oh. We’ve had plenty of time where the, the products arrive after we’ve done the interview. Yeah. We’ve gotta do a little theater of the wine’s happened. We’ve,

Sean P. Holman (11m 21s):

We’ve figured, figured it

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 22s):

Out though. Yeah. So Chuck, you own Pro Eagle, right?

Chuck Foreman (11m 26s):

I am general manager at Pro. Eagle

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 27s):

General manager. You don’t, does that mean you don’t own it? Who is

Chuck Foreman (11m 30s):

It? I do. I do not own it. You don’t? Who does? We are a subsidiary of Austin International. Oh. So Austin International is a private label manufacturer. So we build Jacks for other companies. We build weight distribution hitches, fifth Wheel hitches, leaf Springs, all kinds of stuff in the suspension industry. Anybody from skyjack or fabtech, you know, all those guys are using our product.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 54s):

I had no idea.

Chuck Foreman (11m 55s):

Yeah. So the Jack idea was something that I had come from the offroad industry. I started at Austin International in 2010.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 2s):

So you’re the owner of the idea

Chuck Foreman (12m 3s):

Then? I’m the owner of the idea.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 4s):

Yes. Yes. I’m partially right.

Sean P. Holman (12m 6s):

Not really, but Okay. Well, we’ll tangentially, we’ll yeah, sure. We’ll give that to you. Okay. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (12m 10s):

But yeah, I took the idea to one of the companies that we’re currently manufacturing jacks for and still manufacturing jacks for, and they said the offroad industry is too small. Thank you. But no, thank you. So I walked out of the meeting and said, you know what? We should do it ourselves. And the next day the owner who normally comes in around 10 30 or 11 o’clock was waiting in his office. But when I came in that day and he’s like, do you really think that we could do it? Yeah, sure. Yeah. He’s like, okay, I’ll be your manufacturer and everything else is up to you. Wow. All right. Deal.

Sean P. Holman (12m 39s):

So you created your own startup company, right? That you’re responsible for?

Chuck Foreman (12m 42s):

Yeah. Yeah. So up for the last probably, what was it, six or seven years, it was just me and Austin built the product and I did the rest. Yeah. And now we have a pretty good team there. His son started there.

Sean P. Holman (12m 54s):

I’ve seen you in the little trailer at Overland Expo. Yeah. Or you know, trying to get people to learn about the Jacks. ’cause as we know you, you basically created a category that did not exist. Right. The off-Road Jack. Right. Right. Became hugely popular with racers, with pre runners, with kind of the, the go fast recreational crowd. Right. For big tires. The, the Jack has big tires on it if you guys haven’t seen ’em before. So it makes it way easier to roll also for shops and things like that, that have broken concrete or whatever. They’re awesome for that. But now there’s some competitors have taken notice. So I guess your idea’s good if you create something right. And then somebody rips you off. Right. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (13m 31s):

Now there’s two or three. Now let’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (13m 32s):

Talk, well, before you get to that, let’s talk about operating in the vacuum that you created. Right. So you had this jack that was unlike any other. There had been, I was in the import car scene way back in the nineties. And there was, I remember when the first couple low profile jacks, ’cause when we were dropping Hondas and Nissans and stuff like that, or in trucks minis, you couldn’t get a jack under ’em. Right, right. You have to put ’em up on, on wood two by fours and then put a jack under it. And I remember it was kinda the first few low rider jacks, low profile jacks came out and it was just groundbreaking. And then for the next 15, 20 years, there was no innovations in jacks. I mean, they went from like stamp steel to Well they

Sean P. Holman (14m 10s):

Bill, well they got cheaper to be honest. They got, so they

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (14m 12s):

Got cheaper, but they got went, they went billet. Some of them went really nice. But

Sean P. Holman (14m 15s):

Look at the OE market. The OE market used to have really great bo bottle jacks and a bottle Jack is compact. It has a lot of reach to it. And they work really well. And they went to scissor jacks ’cause they’re cheaper. It’s folded metal and they’re not as, they’re not very stable. So there’s been a couple guys out there who said, okay, I’m gonna make a better bottle jack, or I’m gonna make a replacement. Or in some cases I’ll just make a jack base so that the stock jack that you have, you know, doesn’t wobble and your vehicle falls off. But there hasn’t been like a, a really innovative, you know, there’s, of course we can go back to, you know, high lift, which has serves its purpose. But

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (14m 52s):

You’re being coined.

Sean P. Holman (14m 53s):

You, you have to know what you’re doing. No, they’re, they’re great tools. They’re great implements. But it, to the uninitiated,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (14m 58s):

They can be dangerous. They can

Sean P. Holman (14m 59s):

Be dangerous. Yeah. So then A RB came out and they said, we’ve got our cylinder. But then on that it’s, it’s heavy. You can’t stow it on its side. Packaging’s hard, all that stuff. And other than that, there, there hasn’t really been, I mean, and, and who is gonna take this little wheeled caster, wheeled jack with them off road? ’cause the second that you’re on a, well, some have tried o of course, but then what do you do? You just basically push a bunch of dirt under it when You go to try and lift up your vehicle. Or again, the hydraulics, if they’re, they’re not mounted, they have cheap seals. Most of these things are made pretty cheap and the hydraulics aren’t in the right spot inside the mechanism to pump it up. And you’re sitting there going, oh, well my jack doesn’t work. And it’s all because you stowed it a certain way. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (15m 38s):

Were you had sand in it. Dirt. I mean

Sean P. Holman (15m 40s):

Oh, all that stuff. Who,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (15m 41s):

Who was the first to come out with like the sled that you could like bungee cord onto a standard jack? I saw those. But that also, that’s, that’s not no bueno. Yeah. And then, and then so when did you get this idea? When did you have this realization? Were you out offroading, were you in Johnson Valley? Or how did that happen?

Chuck Foreman (15m 58s):

Yeah, so I grew up in the off-road industry, off-road racing. My dad had raced since I was, before I was born. So I just kind of grew up in it. And like I said, there was already jacks that existed that people were modifying. So that was my pitch to that company that we worked with. It was like, hey, we’re in the offroad industry. We’re buying your jack already, but we’re modifying it and we’re putting the skid plate on it when you’re taking it to your buddy to build an extension because it doesn’t have enough travel, enough height and so on. But nobody’s doing that out of the box and putting a warranty with it and all that stuff. When we have this jack that we modified and we go Uhoh, it doesn’t work anymore. And we take it back to the parts store and say, Hey, this Jack doesn’t work anymore.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (16m 37s):

They don’t warrant it. Sorry. Exactly.

Chuck Foreman (16m 38s):

They tell you to pound sand because it’s not hard jack anymore. So like I said, they saw the off-road industry as, you know, the white fenders Ford Rangers and you know, they’re like, oh, it doesn’t like, no, no, no. This is anything with taller than stock tires and wheels. Like it doesn’t have to be, you know, an off-road truck. It doesn’t have to be a race truck. It’s just anything that’s taller than stock could

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (16m 57s):

Be. Yeah. Any, any grocery getter Bronco for that matter?

Sean P. Holman (17m 1s):

Well it’s, it’s no different than having a two post lift and having different height, you know, pucks on the arms. Right? Yep. Because frames are shaped differently and you know, a v on their Jeeps has a jack base that takes up the, the difference. So they can still use your factory jack, but still the factory jack sucks. And, and those scissor jacks that are just, you know, pressed metal, they wobble. They don’t have a lot of stability to them. They take forever to, you know, put things up and down. Hydraulic jack’s the way to go, but then not great to use off road. So to your point, people got in there and said, I’m gonna make a better jack. But Right. They didn’t always make a better jack. Right.

Chuck Foreman (17m 38s):

All they actually did was just build accessories for that Jack. Sure. So, and the other internal components were still just a jack that was built to use in the garage. Yeah. And ours was that way in the beginning as well. And then everything we learned along the way was, you know, okay, well these seals don’t like heat and vibration and dust and dirt and the internal components don’t like heat and vibration and dirt and you know, if it’s not a fully filled fluid reservoir, then you get aeration. And there’s so many other things that, you know, that we stupid people do off road wise and, you know, none of that. They didn’t care about any of that stuff. So, you know, we, along the way, it’s been 11 years now, so.

Sean P. Holman (18m 18s):

So look at the first jack that you guys created that you sold. Right. And then today’s Jack. Yep. Walk us through some of those innovations. I know you kinda mentioned a few of them, but maybe hit the ones that different and why you had to do it and what you did to solve the problem. Because I, I don’t think people realize, they go, oh, it’s a jack with big tires on it. They don’t realize like there’s no, there’s actual innovation in r and d that went into, to your point, the right seals, the right cylinders, the way it’s built, all that kind of stuff.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (18m 42s):

Wet, just go get like wagon wheels or something, you know, and bolt ’em on and go done. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (18m 47s):

Yeah. So actually the first jacks didn’t have the wheels. It was just a standard jack with the castor wheels. We put the skate plate on it so that it would slide in the sand or dirt and not sink, but you could still use in your garage and the wheels would still make it mobile. And it took us a while to get the solid axles and the wheels to hold 6,000 pounds and do it safely. So that was probably a year, maybe two years after we started. So the first two years it was just the standard jack and then we and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 16s):

And how were those selling those original standard ones?

Chuck Foreman (19m 19s):

In the beginning? Not very well. Okay. Our first offroad expo we probably talked to, you know, whatever it was, if it was a thousand people, 900 of them went. You’re never gonna sell any. Why is that? Well, because I can go buy one at the hardware store at the, you know, local tool shop for 50 bucks and I can bolt escape plate on it and I can have my buddy build an extension and all that stuff. And, and then I’m, you know, I’m still, you know, cheaper than yours. But, but you’re not, that skid plate alone costs more than just my Jack. Yeah. So if you bought that $50, you know, disposable Jack and then all those other parts and pieces, number one, you no longer have a warranty. Yeah. And number two, you’ve spent more money. I feel like

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 58s):

This is a whole nother conversation about off roaders. Right. Because they’re kind of like, they’re always, they’re like ram owners, not all RAM owners, but a lot of RAM owners, they, they think

Sean P. Holman (20m 8s):

Trip over dollars to save pennies. Yeah, that’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 10s):

Exactly right. They think that they can, oh, I

Sean P. Holman (20m 12s):

Can do it better.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 12s):

Make something better cheaper in, out innovate you. Yeah. And, and it ends up costing them three x Right. Every single time. Whether they had to buy the parts and they had, or hire their, buy their buddy like a keg of beer, you know, they didn’t account for the $55 for the keg and like all this stuff they have to do to get it done. Another two x what it would’ve cost if they just bought a Pro Eagle. Right.

Chuck Foreman (20m 35s):

I love surfing the forums. I see that every once in a while somebody will build one in the garage and they’ll do it from scratch and they buy

Sean P. Holman (20m 42s):

A purchase. I figured it out. I have the formula. Exactly.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 43s):

So they, you know what they’re, they’re not taking into account Chuck. Is that like, what do they pay, what do they get paid at work? Let’s say that they’re a skilled machinist or whatever they do for a day job. Right. They gotta be making at least 40 bucks an hour. Right? Right. And so they spent 10 hours working on this thing. So like when You do the equation, they lost money. Right. Like a lot of money by doing it themselves. Right. Now they may have had fun. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (21m 5s):

So if I’ve seen it nine times or 10 times, nine outta 10 times, the guy ends the story with, but if I had to pay my time, then I would’ve saved money if I’d just bought the Pro Eagle.

Sean P. Holman (21m 16s):

Well, and I, it’s, it’s cool ’cause I’ve been on, I’m SoCal off Offroad Recovery Group on Facebook and a bunch of the recovery forums and a bunch of just the general off-roading forums. And every once in a while you’ll see that conversation come up. Oh is it, is, is the Pro Eagle really worth it? Or, oh, I just got my, you know, insert your Chinese knockoff over here. And it’s fascinating because you guys are to a point now as a brand where you actually have brand loyalty where guys that aren’t you are jumping in to defend their, their reason. Like, no, no, this is why I got my Pro Eagle, you’re gonna be sorry you got that. Right. And it’s really funny because you can kinda just sit back and go, oh, they got it. I don’t, you don’t even have to get in the fray.

Sean P. Holman (21m 56s):

Correct. Because you built such a great product. The, the brand promise it has, you know, extended to the way these guys, you know, see the industry and they’re willing to, you know, put their own name in front of it and say, no great company, great product your money ahead by doing it. Right.

Chuck Foreman (22m 12s):

Yeah. And it’s the benchmark that everything’s measured against, you know? Yeah, totally. Like is this as good as the Pro Eagle? Yeah. You know, is this as good? So that’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 18s):

A great place to be. Right? Go back to those early days of off-Road Expo. And by the way, for those of you that aren’t in Southern California, that’s a a, a pretty big event. A big show. Yeah. It was like, kinda like the benchmark show,

Sean P. Holman (22m 28s):

Right? It’s a month before sema. Yeah. Right. And so a lot of the manufacturers in the off-road industry get together and it’s sort of like a test run for their SEMA booth and kind of the new products and they’ll have deals. And it was a little tiny show in Pomona Fairplex, which is where the AAA raceway is. Automobile Club Raceway and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 47s):

The big LA county fairs there.

Sean P. Holman (22m 48s):

LA County Fairgrounds and the NHRA museum. And so it’s a, it’s a big complex that they have the fair there and they have, you know, these big, you know, quo huts or hangers that they have the show space. So they have a ton of trade shows and this is one of the bigger ones in, in our industry.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (23m 3s):

So go back to that time when you’re trying to move those first few pieces and guys are, you know, crapping on your idea basically. Right. How did you turn that corner?

Chuck Foreman (23m 10s):

So again, because my background is racing, we left that show and of the, you know, however many pieces we sold, we thought, okay, I’m gonna use my connections and my people that I know in racing because they’ll get it, you know, the garage mechanic guy, maybe it’s gonna take him a while to get it, but the guys that are actually doing it, working in their cars as much as I am and anybody else that’s, you know, a real true enthusiast is they’re gonna get it. So I went to those guys and I said, Hey, you know, if I were able to help you out with the jack, you know, would you help me out with, you know, photography spa, you know, put up my, you know, decal on the side of your car, let me hang out in your pits and get sticker or get pictures and Oh yeah, of course. You know. And then once they saw it, they’re like, okay, this makes sense.

Chuck Foreman (23m 52s):

Yes. Who,

Sean P. Holman (23m 52s):

Who were your first racers that backed you?

Chuck Foreman (23m 55s):

Actually, surprisingly, RPI Motor Sports, which they build bolts, they like really high end aircraft quality bolts. So they run a class one car and now they have a 10 car and a one car. Wow. So they were one of the first people to go, yeah, you know what, let’s, let’s

Sean P. Holman (24m 9s):

Do it. And if you don’t know class one is an unlimited, it’s like a trophy truck, but car. Right.

Chuck Foreman (24m 13s):

Yeah. And, and back, you know, whatever it was 10 years ago, their class ones weren’t, you know, the stepsister church stepchild two trophy truck, it was still, they were still pretty So they’re kind

Sean P. Holman (24m 22s):

Their own thing. They were

Chuck Foreman (24m 22s):

Pretty close. Yeah. So those guys, a lot of the trophy light drivers Jeep speed drivers, the guys that couldn’t necessarily afford to go out and, and buy all the parts and pieces to build their own, but they went, well shoot, if you’ve got one right outta the box, yeah, I’ll take it. Yeah, we’ll do it. Yeah. And then honestly, a lot of the higher end trophy truck guys and all that stuff started to take notice. I’m like, Hey, what’s

Sean P. Holman (24m 43s):

That? Because they got jealous ’cause they saw the Jeep Speed guy. Right. And he changed his tire faster than they did on the trophy truck. And they’re like, well wait a minute. That dude has a clapped out xj from his garage and he just changed his tire way faster than I could have. What, what’s the magic there, right? Yep. Yep.

Chuck Foreman (24m 56s):

There was people that were like, Hey, I found a Pro Eagle that was on the race course and I had to actually stopped and picked it up because it was like, oh shit, that’s gold man. I need

Sean P. Holman (25m 4s):

That. You started putting serial numbers on those bad boys and ownership info

Chuck Foreman (25m 7s):

And then, you know, the next year at the, at at Alpha Expo and then the Sand Sports Show, we had those same people come back through and you know what, you were right. You know, I did buy the other version, I did it myself and that Jack went out, it stopped working. I had to go back to the store and they told me to pound stand. So I had to buy a new one because all of my Bolton parts were for that Jack. Yeah. So I ended up spending more money than I would have if I had just bought yours. You were right. So,

Sean P. Holman (25m 33s):

So how long did it take? Was it that first year where you started to see the corner turn? ’cause I would imagine you have this idea, the boss says, you know what, I’ll bankroll it and make it happen, but it’s your baby and if you fail, that’s on you. Yeah. And have fun. And I’m sure that first show when you’re going, you’re probably going, oh crap, this wasn’t exactly what I expected in terms of, you know, feedback. Right. And then all of a sudden, was he involved at all? Did you have to do the recap? You’re like, we, we gotta tweak some stuff Or what was that like? What was that conversation

Chuck Foreman (26m 2s):

Like? Yeah, it was, it was definitely, I mean, you’ve done enough trade shows where if you don’t come back with what it costs you to go there. Yeah. You know, then you start going, wait a minute, was it worth it? Hey Chuck

Sean P. Holman (26m 10s):

You Heard of this thing called Return on Investments. Exactly.

Chuck Foreman (26m 13s):

Yeah. Yeah. Well I talked to a thousand people and you know, yes. We only sold, you know, a hundred of ’em, but 900 of those people, they’ll be back,

Sean P. Holman (26m 20s):

I promise brand awareness. Yeah,

Chuck Foreman (26m 22s):

Sure, sure, sure. They’ll sure they

Sean P. Holman (26m 23s):

Will. Yeah. But then they started coming back, then

Chuck Foreman (26m 25s):

They started coming back. Yeah. And then the brand grew and we had loyalty and you know, to the point where, you know, if you had a Ford Raptor and there wasn’t a Pro Eagle on the back of it, you didn’t really have a pro Raptor or a Ford Raptor.

Sean P. Holman (26m 36s):

Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I wanna go back to, so let’s talk about how the Jack differs from today from the first one with some of the, because there’s, there’s tiny changes like seals and things like that, but it’s, this is all stuff that matters how you can mount the, the jack, the, the wheels not being able to hold 6,000 pounds. Right? I mean there’s a lot of stuff you went through maybe just go through.

Chuck Foreman (26m 54s):

Yeah. Yeah. So the, the biggest innovations have been internally into the pump. And then obviously we came out with new models. You know, we had the two ton Jack and I know that, you know, you can lift a, you know, an F two 50 with a two ton jack. Yeah. ’cause you’re lifting a corner at a ton. Right. The American way is bigger is better. Yeah, of course. You know, so we had to have a three ton. So we, we designed a three ton and

Sean P. Holman (27m 16s):

That is a Maba Jamba that is sitting outside the podcast, the pod shed right now.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (27m 21s):

Now was that, so was that a reaction because guys just assumed it wasn’t enough? Or did you, so you didn’t actually need that. You could have thrown it under a two ton under the pumpkin in the back and it would’ve been ample. Correct.

Sean P. Holman (27m 31s):

Yeah. Because you’re doing half, half The truck, basically half

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (27m 33s):

Weight. Yeah. But still guys are like, I need to lift a semi. Right.

Chuck Foreman (27m 37s):

I have a 6,000 pound truck. Yeah. when You ever gonna lift 6,000 pounds worth of The truck though.

Sean P. Holman (27m 42s):

Yeah. I mean, it’s not like you’re lifting in the middle and all four tires are gonna come off the ground. Right, right, right.

Chuck Foreman (27m 46s):

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that’s still, that’s a common misconception that people have. Yeah. Is that, you know, is this Jack, you know? Correct. For my vehicle. Okay. Well how much does your vehicle weigh? Oh, it’s 5,000 pounds. Yeah, that’s more than enough Jack for your truck. Yeah, you’re fine. You know, are you sure? I talked to somebody on the forum and they say that, you know, if you’re a jack or if your vehicle weighs 6,000 pounds, then you need at least a 6,000 pounds.

Sean P. Holman (28m 7s):

Well that dude has a bull haircut, so don’t listen to that. Right.

Chuck Foreman (28m 10s):

Yeah. But I’m not an engineer, I’m just, you know, I know enough about everything to get myself in trouble. And that’s about it.

Sean P. Holman (28m 17s):

That’s how I built this career.

Chuck Foreman (28m 18s):

Right. But we’ve been lucky enough in the last two years we hired a internally a hydraulic engineer and she’s helped tons Awesome. With, you know, this is, we’re having this problem. Yeah. And we’ve tried these three or four different options and so forth three or four times we missed it. Yeah. You know, can you help us fix that? And she has,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (28m 38s):

How many times has she looked at you and went, no, duh. Yeah, exactly. Like, are you serious? This is so obvious. You’re like,

Sean P. Holman (28m 43s):

Where have you been? Yeah, yeah,

Chuck Foreman (28m 44s):

Yeah. Yeah. But there’s a lot of times too, you know, mean, you know, I don’t know if you’ve been around engineers, like they all the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (28m 49s):

All day, every day

Chuck Foreman (28m 49s):

They have a tendency to make things too complicated. Yeah. Right, right, right. I’m like, no, no, no. Like it doesn’t have to have 15 steps. We only need three. You

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (28m 56s):

Know? Right. It’s funny because we had just had this last conversation on our, on our previous interview we were talking about over engineering. So common people will use that term over engineering. You say that to an engineer and they get angry. Yeah. They’re like, there’s no such thing. Right. There’s under engineering. Yeah. There’s no over-engineering, we’re like, well for the average consumer there is. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe

Sean P. Holman (29m 15s):

It’s not for you. Well, but, but there’s also a, a benefit of cost versus features. Right. Like you can over-engineer something, but it’s gonna make the cost so expensive nobody’s gonna buy it. Right. So there, there’s a point of diminishing returns on that. So you have to kind of find that sweet spot. Yeah. I, I’m curious, what were the first wheels that you used? And When, you jacked up something. What did they, did they just like break off? Or like, did they

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (29m 36s):

Taco what

Chuck Foreman (29m 37s):

Happened? Yeah. Yeah. So most wheels will, will hold the static load. So getting 6,000 pounds even on a, you know, your trash can Wheel really isn’t that difficult if it’s standing still, you know, if you drop it or the impact Yeah. Or that, that’s where you have the issues. So we went through quite a few of, I think that’ll work. And then, oh nope, that doesn’t work. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (29m 57s):


Chuck Foreman (29m 58s):

The wheels themselves, we went from a four spoke Wheel to a five spoke Wheel, but it was just compounds that we kept playing with. Yeah. You know, trying to find the right compound, the right measure of, of hardness versus, you know, having some kind of give and flexibility to

Sean P. Holman (30m 14s):

It too. Yeah. Yeah. Because for your jack, there’s a lot of guys who have like the garage floor coating that might be the rubber sheets that have like the diamond plate for grip. Yeah. Yeah. Well guess what? A floor jack does not roll easily on that. Right. And you know, they have this beautiful garage that has this cool flooring and their standard jack, they can’t get it under their, their vehicle. Right. I mean, we’re not even talking just off road. Just rolling it around your garage with an uneven floor is massively better with a program.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (30m 41s):

Well, what is the diameter of the average Wheel on yours?

Chuck Foreman (30m 43s):

Five, six inches has a eight inch rear and a six inch front.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (30m 46s):

Damn. Huge. Yeah. Now you talked about going through these different composites. It’s not like you went to Alibaba, you know, and just went, you know, Chinese superstore and shopped for wheels. Right. There was probably nothing out there that you could use. So you had to find a Wheel manufacturer. Right. How does that even work?

Chuck Foreman (31m 1s):

Yeah, yeah. So we had to find a Wheel manufacturer and obviously we had to find it in the same, you know, general location where we’re building the jacks, which made it even more difficult. Yeah. So that, that was very difficult. And, and finding that, luckily that’s the good part is Austin spends most of his time at the factory and he knows everybody, everybody that’s there. Everybody that’s anybody. And he’s the most friendly person that you’ll ever meet. So he stops and talks to everybody. So everybody is his friend as well. So he was able to go, oh yeah, you know, my, my friend so-and-so like he has a factory and it’s down the road here, you know, let’s go see them. And to date, that is really the only part that the other companies have been able to find that place and they weren’t necessarily loyal to us.

Chuck Foreman (31m 46s):

So that’s the only product on the other jacks that is identical to ours because they buy ’em from the same factory that we do. Got

Sean P. Holman (31m 51s):

It. Yeah. So when You look at those other jacks that are the knockoffs, what component for component, what’s different? What makes your jack work so much better? And we’ve seen all those jacks, we’ve seen them off road, we’ve seen ’em brand new outta the box. We’ve seen them work, but we also have seen a very high failure rate or not no longevity in service life.

Chuck Foreman (32m 13s):

Right. Yeah. I’ve seen quite a few pictures of them just flat out broken in half. In the beginning, most of our hardware was just mild steel. Nobody leaves their jacks out of their garage and the weather, you know, so, but when it’s bolted into the back of a truck and it stays there 24 7 stuff rust. Yeah. So all of the hardware had to change over to stainless steel and you know, we lasted probably a year or two when it was mild steel. So, but their, their product is still for the most part, or at least it was mild steel. And all of the other internal components that are exposed are mild steel. So they’re rusting, they use their aluminum is, is just, has a lot more impurities in it. They use the same, supposedly the same number aluminum that we do, but there’s a lot more impurities which is causing the breakages and stuff they’re having now.

Chuck Foreman (32m 59s):

So that’s where they’re, they’re different. And then, like I said, internally in, in the pump itself, I’m sure they have access to our jacks just like everybody else does. Sure. Yeah. So they pulled it apart and that’s why, and I can go back to the company that we manufacture for now and they still don’t use what we use on the Pro Eagle jacks because it’s too expensive. It just adds too much initial cost to the product. Right.

Sean P. Holman (33m 21s):

Because they’re, they’re, they’re looking at it as a commodity. Correct. You’re looking at it as a problem solver for a niche that has the money to solve the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (33m 26s):

Problem. Right. And as, as a niche you can charge more for it guys willing. It’s like a Rolex, right? Yeah. I mean, guys really want the best, they’re gonna pay for it. And it’s also in small quantities. I would imagine that, you know, when you’re looking at, you know, a, a jack that sold in all the pep boys or something like that, right? You’re talking millions of jacks or hundreds of thousands of jacks and just the cost gets cheap when you’re, when you’re stamping that many pieces of steel or c seeing, you know, pallets and pallets and pallets of pieces of anything. Like it’s gets cheap. Are we gonna talk around it? Can we, can we say who this is? I mean, we don’t wanna get sued, but like it’s the elephant in the room. I think

Sean P. Holman (33m 59s):

You just said it. We don’t wanna get sued. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 1s):

Yeah, But I mean we can say it very matter of factly. I was there when it happened at SEMA and I think that was a, that was a very interesting moment ’cause everyone at the show was talking about it. Right. So Harbor Freight has all their new products that they debut and they’re, they’re, they’ve gotten really good at social media and I think they, I think it was on Instagram or Facebook and they posted it and everyone had an oh moment, like, are you kidding me? Right. They just went after myself

Chuck Foreman (34m 29s):

And Dick the little

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 29s):

Guy. Yeah. And I didn’t see it, but I Heard that you made a beeline straight to the booth. Is that true? Is

Chuck Foreman (34m 35s):

That not true? I was not there that year. No, you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 37s):

Were not. Okay. No.

Chuck Foreman (34m 38s):

So we had decided to only go to SEMA every other year. Right,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 42s):

Right. So you don’t lose your seniority.

Sean P. Holman (34m 43s):

Right. So they went, oh, they’re not coming this year. Launch the Jack. Right.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 47s):

I don’t know. I mean, do you, I don’t you think it was that calculated?

Chuck Foreman (34m 50s):

I doubt it, but it was definitely perfect timing. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 54s):

So they launched it and they did their video and I mean, it wasn’t like celebratory like, wow, good for them. It was, that sucks. I I I, I’m speaking for myself and my and my friends. I, I don’t dislike them at all. don don’t know anyone around that company. I think they do a lot of good. And there,

Sean P. Holman (35m 11s):

There’s a lot of great products there. But

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (35m 13s):

But I would say that when they launched this, we go, well that’s a Pro Eagle that is not cool because that is a company that I knew was based in a, in the US Right. And I know they are based, but like you knew what they were doing trying to snuff out a the small guy. Right. And that was, and and they tout like, oh, we’re a father son company from, you know, like we’re all about small business and all that stuff and here they are stomping just a big heavy boot on an entrepreneur. Right. Tell me about that moment.

Chuck Foreman (35m 43s):

Looking back now, I don’t think that I initially took it that way for sure. But I don’t think that they came out with a product to target Pro Eagle.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (35m 52s):

How could they not?

Chuck Foreman (35m 53s):

The person that was in charge of their off-Road products, the Badlands line came from four Wheel parts and four Wheel parts for a long time had been known for like their house brands were, for lack of a better term,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (36m 7s):

Inspired by other brands. Correct? Yes.

Chuck Foreman (36m 9s):

It was market research and they, you know, they would sell, you know, whatever brand it was and then, hey, that one, we sold a ton of those so let’s have a Smithville brand version, you know, of that version of that same thing. So I think that that’s all that it was, is just they went, they noticed that, hey, these guys are making waves, there’s an opportunity there and we’re gonna take an opportunity where, where, where it was made. My only problem or issue with it is just that they tried very hard to make it look like ours. You know, for most people they say, you know, oh, that, that isn’t the Pro Eagle

Sean P. Holman (36m 42s):

And that’s gotta hurt a little bit. Right. Especially since it was your created category. Right. This is more of your baby than I was a product manager of this line. We came up with something new like this was actually your baby. Right?

Chuck Foreman (36m 54s):

Yeah. Yeah. And I, like I said, don, don’t think that they did it, you know, a hundred percent on purpose. But I think that they tried very hard after the fact to make it look like ours. So that people would go, oh, well it must be just like, well,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (37m 5s):

They’re trying to create consumer confusion. Right? I mean, that’s what you do. Yeah. I mean they’re good at marketing, right?

Chuck Foreman (37m 10s):

Yep. And there’s a need all the time. I’m a customer of theirs for something. Sure. Like there is a need for a less expensive tool. My only issue is why do you have to make all of your products a version of a cheaper version of somebody else’s? Right. You know, just come up with an original idea. Do something out of the box. You know, they launch a new Lighting line that’s a, it’s a direct copy of another Lighting line that it, that currently exists. And they knew that. And I think they did that on purpose is because they’re trying to capitalize on, well if people like those then let’s make ours look just like that. So,

Sean P. Holman (37m 44s):

And now one of the things that we have the, the three ton jack up on the screen here in the pothead, and you have, one of the things is the best warranty in class. Yeah. So let’s talk about your warranty because that’s something that you’re proud of. It’s also something that kind of defends your position a little bit because you are gonna be a lot more customer centric, right?

Chuck Foreman (38m 1s):

Yeah. We offer a two year full replacement warranty. If the customer has an issue, then we send a call tag, they send their jack back to us, we pay for it, it comes back to us. We find out if it really is an issue. ’cause sometimes the customer just refuses to admit that they’re using it wrong. Yeah. And if it is an issue, then we send them a brand new Jack. How do you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (38m 20s):

Use it wrong? Yeah. What do you try and lift up the foundation on a house? don don’t

Sean P. Holman (38m 25s):

Understand. You have a, do you have a feasible link somewhere in your mechanism that bends and you can tally, you go, oh, we, the only reason that link is there is if somebody overloads the jack and then you kinda know, or

Chuck Foreman (38m 35s):

We, I tell her all the time, like there I had another customer that I just wish they would just put it away and call aaa. You know, I’m like, this guy’s gonna get hurt or he is gonna hurt somebody. So Yeah. But so like we replace the entire Jack and then we have all the parts and pieces for the Jack ’cause where the manufacturer, so the customer can, if their Jack is out of warranty, then they can go on our website and buy any part and piece for it and replace it on their own. So we do repair videos and instructional videos to show them how to do that. And it’s easy. And we go to events like King of the Hammers and others and we’re doing all of those repairs and we do that a hundred percent for free. If your jack just isn’t quite working correctly, just bring it to us and we’ll, we’ll put a new pump in it if it needs to be, you know, change the fluid in it or whatever it may be, we’ll do it for you.

Sean P. Holman (39m 21s):

Is that a, is that like an actual bearing? It

Chuck Foreman (39m 24s):

Is. Yeah. So that was one of the different things that we learned is well, what we’re looking at,

Sean P. Holman (39m 27s):

The wheels we’re looking at front, right. Wheel, I blew up the, I blew up the wheels from a photo on their website. On the TV and the pod shed. Yep. Yep. And I look, and there’s a c clip that’s holding a bearing to an axle. So it’s not like your wheelbarrow that has either a really tiny bearing or no bearing at all, where it just sort of rides on a sleeve on like a, a piece of, you know, rod or something like that. Or bar, you know, rod Stalker? No, this is an actual like machined axle that has a bearing that has a C clip on it that’s holding the Wheel on. Yeah. They’re like giant skateboard bearings.

Chuck Foreman (39m 56s):

Yeah, exactly. That’s what they are. Yeah. They’re very, very, very similar. Are they Swiss?

Sean P. Holman (40m 1s):

You don’t have Swiss bearings, right? Eight x sevens. Yes. All the nines if you’re a baller. Yeah. I was never a nine kid. I couldn’t afford ’em. Okay.

Chuck Foreman (40m 7s):

Yeah. But yeah, and coming up with the wheels and that was one of those things where it was like, what, when the world were we thinking, you know, we had made ’em for, you know, quite a few months. Yeah. And you know, we use ’em ourselves and if you use ’em two or three times or whatever and you’re not using ’em in soft sand or dirt, you don’t necessarily notice the fact that the bearings are getting caked with dirt until you go to roll it across your garage floor and went, wait a minute, it doesn’t roll anymore. Why not? Oh, like why didn’t we think of the fact that we had to have sealed bearings? Yeah. So then they all went to sealed bearings. So,

Sean P. Holman (40m 35s):

Well, one of the cool things about the new three ton Jack is it’s actually cool looking like most, most of ’em, you know, you have the frame, you have the mechanism, you have the pump, they all bolts together and goes up and down and does jack things. But this thing almost has like body work to it. Like you guys actually designed it so that there, there was a, an elegance to a Jack, right? You take this really functional tool that people probably ignore until they need it, but when You need it, you really need it. And you made it something that the first time somebody opens that box and looks at it, they go, somebody gave a

Chuck Foreman (41m 5s):

Right. Yeah. So this one that you’re looking at, we’re looking on the screen is our new shop jack. So our three ton credo is the one that actually has a lot more of the curves and, you know, sharp lines and whatever. And that one was, so going back, you know, initially the two ton Jack was just the version of what we were building for the other company. And the three ton Jack was the first one that was like, all right, we’re here, we have a clean slate here, let’s start from scratch. So that’s the one that we were like, okay, well, you know, how do we make a a wedge? Yeah. Look sexy. Yeah. You know, my inspiration was, you know, like the, the B two bomber and you know, a Chevrolet Corvette stingray and you know, I

Sean P. Holman (41m 44s):

Can see there’s, there’s some angles on there, right? Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (41m 46s):

Yeah. So I’m like, well, we can add some looks to it and make it look, you know, not like a wedge like the other ones looked. And then the 1.5 ton came after that and we’re like, well shoot, we might as well go all the way with it too and make it look like the three ton.

Sean P. Holman (41m 59s):

So, but the nice thing about that is is again, it’s the aesthetic. It doesn’t look like a just a forgotten piece of metal in your bed. It’s a piece of almost jewelry that goes with The truck along with your power tank and your other, I mean, right. There’s all sorts of stuff that is functional that guys are bolting to their Molly panel in their bed or whatever.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 17s):

Well, you were saying earlier, I mean, if you had a Raptor and you had a Pro Eagle that completed the look, right? Yeah. Yep. And so it’s a, it is a piece of functional jewelry. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (42m 25s):

Yeah. And then, you know, if you’ve got it in the back of your truck and everybody wants their truck to look good, so you might as well make all the products in the back of The truck. They’re both in and look good too. Right.

Sean P. Holman (42m 33s):

There you go. Up, up didn’t go on the screen. Hold.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 35s):

Now will you anodize them in custom colors?

Chuck Foreman (42m 37s):

We actually used to do that a lot and I

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 39s):

No kidding. I was joking,

Chuck Foreman (42m 41s):

But that’s cool. Yeah, because I was hand building everything, so I would take it all down. We had a powder coat place in Heim Hills. I would take it all too. And we did red, white, and blue ones. I would do pink ones for breast cancer awareness month in October. We did a lot of that stuff. But I was doing it all myself.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 58s):

It’s too much.

Chuck Foreman (42m 58s):

It’s too much. Yeah. It

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (42m 59s):

Doesn’t scale properly.

Chuck Foreman (43m 0s):

Right. I I didn’t have the time to do it anymore. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (43m 2s):

Yeah. All my, all my friends I smoked cigars with, if I get a really bad cigar, I smoke that sucker all the way to the end. They’re like, dude, it’s a $10 cigar. Like, get rid of it. It’s trash. I’m like, no, I’m gonna, I hate it, But. I’m gonna go all the way through. Right. And they’re like, why do you do that? I’m like, because some little man in the Dominican Republic put his heart soul in the building, this cigar, and I feel like I’m throwing away his effort. So, so I can appreciate you standing in a garage, like bolting the pieces together, because every one of those jacks had, you touched every single one of ’em for a while, right? Yeah. Like they, they all had a, a, a fingerprint, some sweat or

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (43m 37s):

Whatever. And you know what was sad is no one appreciates that stuff. I mean, you were doing it, like, when I started my clothing store, they didn’t have tagless shirts. That wasn’t a thing. And I wanted Tagless shirts. So I was buying all style. They’re based out of Anaheim 13 Oh. Ones I, it was a six point, 6.6 ounce shirt, a hundred percent cotton. And they had sewn in tags. And I figured out that if I cut the tag close enough to the ham on the inside of the neck, that with a pair of needle nose pliers, I could sift out the rest and it became tagless. And then I would bring, I did them all in my garage for a year and a half. Wow. Thousands of shirts. I would use my vice and lay it over my vice on how this whole system and my wife’s friends would come over for drinks or whatever, and they would tag

Sean P. Holman (44m 19s):

Removal party. Woo.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (44m 21s):

No, no. They would laugh at me and not participate. Oh, they thought it was

Sean P. Holman (44m 24s):

Insane. Buno night anyway. Exactly.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (44m 26s):

Bunko. No, they don’t do Bunco. Yes. They were just, they were, but Winos, yes. Not Bunco. So like I totally hear you. And no customer ever said, oh, is that a all style 1301 with no tag? That’s interesting. No one, not a single person knows. But they appreciated it when they weren’t reaching behind all day. Yep. Because it was bugging ’em or sticking up past their neckline. Exactly. And I think it was a person that, I’m gonna take credit for it. I don’t know this for sure, but the all style guys, the reps were based in Long Beach and ours. And I, I know that he wasn’t in the store. I would imagine at some point he came in and goes, these are all of our shirts, and they don’t have tags. And then shortly thereafter, they came out with tagless shirts. You just pull it off and they screen the, the tag and his stuff. Right. Anyway, but like, I feel your pain. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (45m 7s):

You know, the, and the next step to that was, you know, I would spend, it would take me an hour to assemble each one of those. Obviously I couldn’t ask the powder cutter to plug all the holes and everything in, you know, in, in a hundred jacks. So now

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (45m 19s):

You have the reamer out,

Chuck Foreman (45m 20s):

So the drill and ream, and file all the holes out. So it would take me an hour each jack. And they were beautiful. We did like a full run of red, white, and blue ones for the 4th of July. And I still get asked for, you know, Hey, can you make me another red, white, and blue one? But

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (45m 33s):

Now were you and Jennifer married then?

Chuck Foreman (45m 35s):

No, no. My friend and girlfriend at that time. Okay. Okay.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (45m 37s):

But because were you looking at him like, seriously, that’s what you’re gonna do your free time? I’m dating the wrong guy. Yeah. She’s

Chuck Foreman (45m 43s):

Like, as long as the paycheck clears, I’m good. Yeah. But it killed me to see people use them in the dirt. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it actually killed me. I’m like, oh, that, you know how long it took me.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (45m 53s):

I know what,

Chuck Foreman (45m 54s):

I know that’s what it’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (45m 55s):

For, but it still hurts. Yeah, yeah,

Chuck Foreman (45m 57s):

Yeah, yeah. So here’s this beautiful white jack with, you know, red, you know, and blue powder coat on ’em. And like I said, they look beautiful, but it, it was awful to see them being used. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (46m 8s):

I, I gotta know that you’re the company that you’re working for making Jack for, you know, third parties. You’re making thousands of those things, right? Yeah. But here you are making like 150 at a time, right? Right. It seems so opposite from the rest of the company that you’re working with, all the customers that you have, right? Yeah. It’s polar opposite. How did you justify that?

Chuck Foreman (46m 31s):

It was difficult to just

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (46m 32s):

Business wise? Yeah. It was difficult

Chuck Foreman (46m 33s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (46m 33s):

Justify, justify because you guy that you’re who’s bankrolling is like, Chuck, really, you’re moving 30 of these things, right? You know, I I I expect you to be doing 30 pallets, not 30 pieces. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But I built every one, right?

Chuck Foreman (46m 43s):

Yeah. But he knew that it was a passion he has. He comes from the offroad industry too. We actually had met, I used to work for Keystone Automotive, and I won, I was the top salesman for a year, I think it was selling pro comp products. And he was a manufacturer for Proco suspension. So Pro Comp invited their top salespeople down to Baja to go on a wide open tour, and, which is awesome, by the way, right? Yeah. So we were there and he was a guest of the owner of Pro Comp at the time. So we had met and on, we talked and had conversations and everything every night. But I didn’t know it was him until years later, and I started there, but, so his passion was motor sports and off road.

Chuck Foreman (47m 24s):

He has sand rails, he still has sand rails and goes out, you know, every Thanksgiving to glam and holidays and, and stuff. So he very much enjoys it. So he knew that it was a passion, and he also saw the products that we were making, and we were, we, we deliver full, complete, ready to buy products. And he saw that, wait a minute. Well, we sold that product to them for $30 and they sold it for $300. You know, he was a little bit maybe naive to go, like, there’s a lot of other marketing and all that stuff that goes into building in that price. You know, it is worth $300. It’s not worth $30 to them. So that was the difficult part is, is building that like, wait a minute. Like, you know, why can’t we sell it for $300 and make, you know that Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (48m 7s):

That 300% profit, you know?

Sean P. Holman (48m 9s):

Yeah. Because there’s other, there’s other things that go into it,

Chuck Foreman (48m 11s):

Right? Yeah. So he didn’t mind having a niche product because he wanted to have his own brand, and he knew that there was passion behind it, and he loved it just as much as I did. So he loved walking past, you know, a raptor at the grocery store and going, Hey, that’s got my jacket in the back of it, you know? So

Sean P. Holman (48m 25s):

Does he love it as much today?

Chuck Foreman (48m 26s):

He does, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (48m 28s):

So I, I pull up on the screen, the, the garage style Jack is not the only Jack that you guys make. And so I wanted to pull up, you guys have the CO2 jacks Yeah. Which are freaking awesome. I love those things. Yeah. A lot of us carry power tanks off road and things like that. So maybe you walk us through your CO2 line also.

Chuck Foreman (48m 43s):

Yeah. So actually, and that’s, that’s one that we just kind of stumbled into the first Phoenix CO2 Jack that used to be built by Baha Designs. They had a Jack that was called the Quick Jack. Yeah. And at, I think it was at KOH, just, you know, maybe eight or nine years ago, they walk through and they’re like, Hey, you guys are the Jack guys. You’ve, you’ve cemented yourself and you’re the Jack Guy. Now we used to build the Jack and we haven’t built a jack in probably two or three years, and we still get phone calls for at least two or three times a month. We don’t have any intentions on ever building this Jack again, but would you guys be interested in buying the design from us? I took a look at it and went, oh, yeah, I’ve seen that before. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I was just in Baja like, you know, a week before that.

Chuck Foreman (49m 24s):

And Rob MCC Cran had one on the, on the roll bar. Yeah. His of his PreRunner. Yeah. Like, yeah, I, I’d totally be interested in that. And so we negotiated and we give them, you know, a

Sean P. Holman (49m 34s):

Royalty, a

Chuck Foreman (49m 35s):

Royalty on each one that we manufacture. Awesome. And which they told the designs and it’s, we’ve changed so much of the design I

Sean P. Holman (49m 42s):

That it really isn’t, I it’s not there anymore.

Chuck Foreman (49m 43s):

It’s not there. Theres anymore. And they’ve seen it since then. yeah. And like, that’s what it should have been, you know? Yeah. You would thread the CO2 into it, and then it instantly, as soon as it would pop, it would go full max height. Yeah. And then as soon as you wanted to lower it, you unthreaded the CO2 and, and it was soft

Sean P. Holman (49m 57s):

Just as barbaric. Well, even, even now, it’s like you look at the herbs Smith trophy trucks, right. They basically have that upside down in the chassis now where you hit a button and it jacks the whole thing up on its own and you’re like, Whoa. Well, that’s like an F1 car. Yeah. Yeah. But, but hydraulic, the reach is three feet. Right. Because you have 36 inches of travel and you’ve gotta get the chassis high enough to change a tire. And so right behind, like where the B pillar would be on a, on a regular car right in front of the rear Wheel, like on Ryan Ro or, or the herbs, they have this thing and you just hit a button and goes, and the whole truck is boom. Damn, the Wheel,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50m 32s):

You gotta make sure that there’s not a mechanic underneath. Right? Oh,

Sean P. Holman (50m 34s):

Dude. It, it is crazy. But I mean, it’s, it’s funny that when You la you know, when You talk about Jack technology Yeah. Right. But, I mean there really has been, in the last 20 years, a lot of Jack technology, whether it’s CO2, whether it’s redesigning the garage jack to make it something that is durable and, and something you can keep for and rebuild over and over again if you really need to.

Chuck Foreman (50m 55s):

Right? Yeah. And then we, after that, we came up with the dual stage one. So the issue with the single stage is if you, especially on a UTV, you know, you don’t wanna carry a, a, whatever, a 50 pound jack with you when you’re out on the trail, so you need the lightest jack possible. So they were carrying that, but the problem was at the time that most of those had a 14 inch Wheel and a 30 inch tall tire. So if you had a flat tire, the control arm or whatever chassis component that you were trying to put, oh, it’s too low. It was too low, so it wouldn’t get underneath it, which isn’t a problem in our terrain out west. Yeah. But if you’re in somewhere like Moab or something like that where you couldn’t dig out, right. It was, it was an issue. So the dual stage solved that with giving it a, a lower starting point, but it doesn’t go up quite as high.

Chuck Foreman (51m 38s):

So think

Sean P. Holman (51m 39s):

Of for, for guys who are listening to, to this, think of it as a, your typical shock and think about it extended in collapsed length and think about the body, what’s, what they did was basically shrink the body size. Yeah. So that you could have a lower starting point to get it under the

Chuck Foreman (51m 53s):

Chassis. Right. And made it telescopic. Yeah. So I would, a second stage it would come up and that

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (51m 58s):

Has to be like hardened chrome molly, or that can’t just be like mild steel’s carrying tremend

Chuck Foreman (52m 2s):

Load stainless steel

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (52m 3s):

Actually. Oh, stainless

Chuck Foreman (52m 4s):

Is really, and so the body, the outside body is aluminum and then the shaft and everything inside, all the components internally are stainless steel. Yeah. We have a really good source of stainless steel. And so we have a lot of our, our jack mounts that are made to, to carry the jack in the back of your truck. They’re all stainless steel as well.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (52m 19s):

It’s nothing worse than rusty hardware. Right. Yeah, for sure. What year did you start this again?

Chuck Foreman (52m 25s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (52m 27s):

Could you have imagined yourself having an attire website full of jacks and Jack accessories?

Chuck Foreman (52m 32s):

It was a dream. It was a goal. Yes. But I wasn’t sure if it would ever happen, but it, I’m happy that it has,

Sean P. Holman (52m 38s):

Look, look at all the accessories now. Yeah. And it’s funny, I was just on a drive program with Johnny Lieberman who’s got a rivian, and he was asking me, Hey, you know, I need an off-road, Jack, don don’t know what to look at. And Rivian, you can only lift him in four places, essentially. Isn’t he too

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (52m 53s):

Bougie to ever jack his own vehicle up?

Sean P. Holman (52m 55s):

Well, I don’t know. He probably has people, but, but look, rivian jack adapter. Yeah. Right. I mean, and those things are out there. People are using the, out of all the EV trucks, that’s probably the one that’s actually out there with people

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 6s):

Exploring. And, and that’s, that’s turned, that’s machined. It’s,

Sean P. Holman (53m 9s):

It’s gorgeous. Look at the, the made for GM EVs one, there’s all sorts of like, just scroll down. The, the mount is really cool. You’ll see that on a lot of Chase trucks. The Jack extension is really cool, obviously the Jack Lock, we’re familiar with that. Pause

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 23s):

There for a second on the extensions. So that is something that, you know, I guess made you unique in the beginning, right? You, you had more height. That was the whole thing. I, I think feel like we haven’t even talked about that. Two, right? Well, two things. It’s height and stability. Height and stability. But so you had, because you were a wider track. Correct. How high could you go up? Like what was the tallest truck you were, because like, you know, I’m driving mall crawlers. Could you, could you lift mine? Right. Is there suspension component low enough for me to get to, right?

Chuck Foreman (53m 48s):

Yeah. Yeah. So it was just one of those like, Hey, you know, we started getting calls that it just isn’t tall enough. Do you have anything that goes taller? This first, Jack started out with a, I think it was two feet of lift height with our supplied eight inch extension. And then when the big Wheel jacks came out, that added an extra two inches of height, starting height. So it had two feet, two inches. And then the three ton, because it’s a longer body, had two feet, four inches of, of lift height. You had sand rail guys, you had, you know, shoot a, a, a new Polaris is, you know,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 19s):

And if you’re not familiar with a sand rail, the body is really high up and it’s flat. So it’s all like, I mean, there’s really nothing hanging down below the belly. Correct. It’s just a, a piece of aluminum that’s dead flat. Correct. With, with tubular frame rails on the side and everything is tucked up so it can go, I mean, what do you, what do you jack on Right, on a sand rail, like literally where you, I don’t even know where you’d jack up a sand rail. Right. But it’s, and it’s, it’s gotta be three feet off the ground minimum. Yep.

Chuck Foreman (54m 46s):

Yeah. So you’ve got no suspension components that you can attack from. You can’t, you know, lift on a, on a trailing arm because it’s at too much of an angle. So you have to go from the flat part of the belly pan. And then if you’re lifting from the flat part of a belly band in a car that has over two feet of Wheel travel, it’s gotta go pretty high. And especially if, if you’re, you’re doing it in soft dirt or sand, you’re gonna have some shrinkage. So you’ve lost another one or two inches of height just because it’s sunk in the sand a little bit. Which is why our jack has a, a, a large plate on the bottom of it. So you’ve got a, a larger footprint, you know, it makes, so even

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55m 20s):

If the wheels do sink, you have a to, to their diameter. Right.

Chuck Foreman (55m 23s):

Gotcha. Yeah. But we got to the point where we’re like, okay, we’re just, the cars are just getting too big, you know, and that problem is across the board Whether, it’s a, a jeep that you have to lift from the frame rail to be able to put a spring back in the pocket or, you know, fix some other kind of steering component or whatever it may be. Or it’s a sand rail, or it’s a UTV. That problem is universal. So we had to go taller. It was a 13 inches, and now we found a way to be able to still certify it and keep it safe and go at an extra two inches. So now it’s a 15 inch extension. And the way our extension attaches is also pretty unique, especially to the guys that have come out and copied it now from, from the racing world, if you have a car that comes in there that you need to change an axle CB joint on, you’ve gotta go to full droop to be able to get the axle out of the car.

Chuck Foreman (56m 15s):

But if you have a car that comes in with a flat tire, you don’t need an that extra 15 inches of lift height you need. So you, you

Sean P. Holman (56m 23s):

Can see the extension here in this photo?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (56m 25s):

I do. So, so the extension is telescopic, is that correct? Yep, that’s correct. Okay. And then you’ve got a hardened steel pin that goes through Yep. The way that you would with anything that’s telescopic. Yep. So, so what’s the tallest one that you offer that extension? 15. 15. And it collapsed. It’s what?

Chuck Foreman (56m 39s):

Eight. Eight. Okay. And then the eight inch one goes from four to eight.

Sean P. Holman (56m 44s):

So can we talk about one of the things that I’m super excited about? Sure. So I’ve been a long time BFG guy. Yeah. And you guys have a cool collab where you are going to be selling BFG basically the wheels, the tires for the Jack.

Chuck Foreman (56m 57s):

Yeah. That’s one I’m actually extremely proud of too. It’s, it’s coming from,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 1s):

Wait, wait. You’re saying the plastic wheels on your jacks will be BFGs

Chuck Foreman (57m 4s):

Composite will be a, a copy of a BF Goodrich

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 6s):

With the retinol. Yep. Yeah, that’s

Sean P. Holman (57m 8s):

Rad. Is is it, what is, is it KM three or KO two

Chuck Foreman (57m 11s):


Sean P. Holman (57m 11s):

Three. Awesome. Yeah. Which is what I have on mine. So like I need a set of wheels.

Chuck Foreman (57m 14s):

Yeah. We tried to do the KR for a long time. Yeah. And we couldn’t get the mold to release with as intricate as that trip pattern was. Oh yeah. Yeah. So we had to backpedal a little bit and went to the KM three. Not that that’s a, you know, anything to, to, I love those tires be disappointed. Mouth, I

Sean P. Holman (57m 29s):

Mean, you can beat the living crap out of those things. Right. I mean, I’ve got a 7,000 pound Jeep in the driveway and I, camm threes are a fantastic tire. Yeah. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 39s):

Horrible. It’s, so something is here, you just like riff past the, the mold release like that is something that only an entrepreneur would have to deal with, right. Or mechanical engineer, whatever. It’s just something that the consumer would never think like, oh, that’s kind of neat. It’s got a little BFG and they move right past it. They’re like, you don’t understand how much work went into that. Like

Sean P. Holman (57m 55s):

You don’t get it or, but even the collaboration with a, there’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 57s):

20 iterations before we can

Sean P. Holman (57m 58s):

Get to that, a global, a global corporation with lawyers and they, they’re protecting their brand IP to have a collaboration like that. Yeah. And it’s like, I’m sure the BFG guys are sitting there going, dude, this, this works. And then they have to convince everybody up the chain and then you gotta figure out what the licensing deal is and you guys gotta come together and Yeah. I honestly wonder if, so one of the things we do in OVR is we have the scaler stuff and so in the scaler world there’s all sorts of these licensing. So I’m wondering if that may help. What did you just say? RC trucks scale. RC trucks. Got it. But because you can get scale max tracks and scale BFG tires and it’s got, I’m wondering if that helped the licensing. ’cause now these companies are sort of used to having that sort of collaboration partnership, right? Where their miniaturized version of their parts are showing up on other things.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (58m 41s):

They probably have licensing departments, right? Yeah. That just do that,

Chuck Foreman (58m 43s):

Right? Yeah. So one of our longtime customers was a company called Offer Tire Guide located US San Diego. And his company was bought by and he went to work for Jackson Motorsports. Okay. Jackson Motorsports is the retail arm of BF Goodrich. So he’s always been a fan, he is always been a customer from day one. Believed in them. He Oh. Helped us to get to BF Goodrich pit support guys who had been wanting the Jackson for forever. Oh, there you go. And, and for whatever reason just didn’t buy them. Yeah. You know, so they, they, you know, it was a weird circumstance, but, so he connected us with all the BFG pit support guys. So they had the jacks that they always wanted and they loved and they’ve been using them for last 10 years and all of their pit support stuff from anything in the US all the way down to Baja and everything.

Chuck Foreman (59m 32s):

So that definitely helped to grease the wheels. Two years ago. I was in the, I learned early on that in the motor sports world, nobody’s gonna get me any media or footage or, or anything to be able to post on social media Yeah. If I don’t get it myself. Yeah. I went to the races and I stopped racing myself just so that I could walk through the pits and get pictures of my product being used so that I had content for the next week or month or whatever it may be. Or they

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (59m 58s):

Charge you. Exactly. Still to this day, it’s the craziest thing. Like, I don’t know, like in in other industries you can just go find photos, but it’s like, well there’s Hollywood if you, if it’s red carpet, there’s paid Getty photographers and if you want a picture of x, y, Z star, you gotta pay for that photo and the rights and all that stuff. Right. And it’s the same way with off-Road events. There’s always a paid photographer and they watermark the snot outta their photo and you can’t get, unless you pay the guy, you know, 150 bucks whatever for that photo. Right. But you can go take yourself for $0.

Chuck Foreman (1h 0m 26s):

Exactly. Yeah. So that’s what I did. I drove to all the races, I went to the races in Baja, I went to the races here, every race I was at and I was walking to the pits taking pictures and people were like, Hey, that’s a Pro Eagle guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Come take a picture of my car. But I also knew being a racer, that when a car comes in and it’s all hands on deck, the last thing you’re thinking of is taking a picture. Yeah. But that’s fine. I’ll do it myself. Yeah. So I was in the vehicle Goodrich pit and I was taking pictures while cars came in there and I just so happened to have somebody that was pretty high up the chain and I said, wouldn’t it be cool if these had mini BF Goodridge tires? And he stopped in his tracks and he went, it would, let’s talk about that. Nice.

Sean P. Holman (1h 1m 3s):

So there’s a lot of business that happens on the, on the side of the race course in Baja. Right. It’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 1m 7s):

Kind of kinda like a golf course.

Chuck Foreman (1h 1m 8s):

So we had hit a couple dead ends and, you know, it was a little bit more difficult than it sounded that day. And so then I got back a hold of the guy from Offroad Tire guy who was still at Jackson. And he is like, no, let me put you in touch with the right guys. And so he, we had a, a conversation, a Zoom call with the, you know, the guys back in where they at? South Carolina, South Carolina and Yeah, I know about Pro Eagle, I’ve heard of you guys. Yeah. Whatever. We’d love to work with you. Awesome. And so we’ve talked to some other people in the licensing industry and people that have also worked with B of Goodrich. Yeah. And like, you know, you’ve been working this for 10 years, right? No, it’s been less than a year. Dude, they’re not an

Sean P. Holman (1h 1m 43s):

Easy company to work with.

Chuck Foreman (1h 1m 43s):

Right? Yeah. Because they were just as excited as we were. Yeah. Which is been tremendous. Like really, that’s like, you’re excited to work with us. Like, okay, cool, alright,

Sean P. Holman (1h 1m 51s):

Let’s go,

Chuck Foreman (1h 1m 51s):

Let’s go. Yeah. So they’ve pushed stuff through, they’ve fast tracked for stuff for us. It’s also helps that, you know, it’s not a fully BF Goodrich branded product. Right. It’s just a, you know, a representation of their product on my product. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 2m 5s):

I mean, it doesn’t compete with anything they make. Right. So that’s great. It’s an extension of their brand. Yeah. Congratulations.

Sean P. Holman (1h 2m 11s):

Just wait till those other guys have the GF bud r on their, on their jacks. Right.

Chuck Foreman (1h 2m 21s):

And they’re, they’re, they’re chomping at the bit. They’re like, we can’t wait until somebody tries to knock this off because we weren’t gonna sue the pants off. We have much bigger lawyers than you can afford and we’re gonna go for it.

Sean P. Holman (1h 2m 32s):

BF G’s a subsidiary of Michelin. They just open up a cabinet and there’s like just a string of lawyers hanging up. They’re like, oh yeah, 10 of ’em, 10 of ’em will do. And they just all slide right out of their lawyer cabinet. Yep,

Chuck Foreman (1h 2m 42s):

Yep. Yeah. We’ve joked about it. They’re like, okay, well they’re gonna come to the, you know, the next event with ling long tires on there or something.

Sean P. Holman (1h 2m 47s):

Yeah. Right. Yeah. So one of the things that you guys talk about is jack safety. And so I think we’d be remiss if we didn’t talk about that. There’s a lot of products out there, there’s lots of school of thoughts and there’s lots of people who are risk takers. Yep. And you know, at the very,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 3m 3s):

By the way, I just sent a photo to Dave, our social media guy, and it is a guy with a, a truck jacked up. There’s, so there’s two jacks lifting the front of The truck, but between the jacks there are four cinder blocks. So there’s eight cinder blocks total lifting this jack up. And he’s just under there wrenching. I thought, oh my god, you need a Pro Eagle. Right. Oh my. It’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 3m 24s):

Awful. Well, this is what I don’t underst understand.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 3m 25s):

You’re just like, it’s gonna crumble like cinder blocks.

Sean P. Holman (1h 3m 27s):

But here’s the thing, just you use the jack, right? And there’s all these people that are like, oh, I’m too lazy to get my jack stands or whatever. So they’re just gonna use the hydraulic jack and there’s gonna be a leak down. And as the seals get old and your, your,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 3m 40s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 3m 40s):

Gonna droop truck is starting to fall while you’re under, you took the tires off, just put ’em under the frame. Like at the very least, if you don’t have a jack stand, you, you pulled the tire off and it’s leaned up against the wall behind you. Put that sucker on its side and put it under your frame at least. Then you, well

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 3m 56s):

They don’t wanna mess up the rim. They’d rather have their

Sean P. Holman (1h 3m 58s):

Head mess up the ri No, you, no, you don’t mess up the rim. You’ve got the tire bulge and it sits on that. But at least do that, especially if you’re, you’re off road and you’re on the trail or something like that. Like just, just take your tire that you already removed and then just put it under there so that you don’t get crushed. Yeah. ’cause nobody wants to turn a flat tire into a medevac. Yeah. Like that’s not cool.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 4m 16s):

Well, so talk us through some of the str the oddities you’ve run into, you know,

Sean P. Holman (1h 4m 21s):

And proper usage.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 4m 21s):

And I mean humans as oddities, like the freak shows that you’re like, I, how did you, why did you use it like that? Yeah, guy trying to jack up a gas tank, you know, know what I mean? Right through the plastic.

Chuck Foreman (1h 4m 30s):

The most fun, like I get that all the time we go through, you know, again, going through the pits and that was a internal issue that I had. You know, I’m like, should I try to help this guy to be more safe or do I need to get the picture that I need to get? Yeah. You know, so I walk through and I watch him, you know, they’ve got three guys laying underneath The truck and two guys standing there going to get tools for ’em or whatever. And nobody’s thought about can you just push the tires underneath that vehicle so it doesn’t fall. So I do it, I push the tires underneath there, you know, and generally the guy’s like, you know, they look up,

Sean P. Holman (1h 4m 59s):

They go, oh thanks. Yeah. Oh, it’s

Chuck Foreman (1h 5m 0s):

The political guy. Yeah. Yeah. Why didn’t you guys do that? You know? But one of the most fun parts of that is when they use the Jack as a third Wheel or whatever. Yeah. We have I have some good friends that run Baja Tours and they’ve had a number of cars that have ripped the, you know, corner off of it and they’re miles from the nearest, you know, trailer or access road. And so they trap strapped the jack to the axle of The truck and they drive it up. Let’s go. Yeah. Yeah. We had the first person I saw that did that. We do it all the time. Like people, you know, block me and we used to live in downtown Long Beach and you know, I Oh, you’re

Sean P. Holman (1h 5m 35s):

Moving cars left and

Chuck Foreman (1h 5m 35s):

Right. Yeah. I come out and like, dang it, somebody blocked me in again. So I just to get the jack out and move their car for them out in the middle of the street so they knew what they got the message. And then I’d go to work that day. By the way,

Sean P. Holman (1h 5m 46s):

That deserves a bell. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (1h 5m 48s):

But so

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 5m 49s):

Wait, I, I’m trying to wrap my head around them strapping the jack to,

Sean P. Holman (1h 5m 53s):

So think about it to the hub. Yeah. So think of your Wheel blew off ’cause he hit a rock. Yeah. And you just have a spindle sitting there. Yeah. You basically jack the jack up and then strap it to it and then you use the Pro Eagles four little composite tires to be your new Wheel to get, does that work? I mean, it

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 6m 8s):

Works if it’s hard compact, but if it’s sand, you’re gonna trench

Sean P. Holman (1h 6m 11s):

It. Listen, it’s better than it works. It works. Yeah. It’s better than having your spindle dragon on the ground. Yeah, we,

Chuck Foreman (1h 6m 16s):

We have a, it’s one of the more popular videos on our Instagram, but scroll back through and look at it. There’s a Ford Raptor in Baja and it’s in really soft dirt and it’s also mixed in like some volcanic rock and whatever. They strap it to it, obviously it started off on top of the dirt and as soon as they moved it went down, down into the dirt and it starts pushing the rocks and everything in the sand out and then it pops back up. You know, just like riding a surfboard or something like that. Like

Sean P. Holman (1h 6m 42s):

You doing a duck dive. Well it

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 6m 43s):

Feels like the guys to do that with jet skis. Right. You know, seadoos under the water comp.

Chuck Foreman (1h 6m 47s):

Yeah. And it pops back up and they drove it on that jack for six miles. Dang. Yeah. To, to the nearest door. Is that

Sean P. Holman (1h 6m 53s):

Covered under warranty?

Chuck Foreman (1h 6m 54s):

That is not covered under warranty.

Sean P. Holman (1h 6m 56s):

Yeah. Well it is a good durability test for your wheels though.

Chuck Foreman (1h 6m 59s):

That is, yeah. Yeah. And the only thing that failed on it was one of the straps came loose and wrapped itself around the jack in the axle and then it started dragging that one Wheel of R Jack. And so that one is pretty flat spotted, but the other three are still fine. So, but yeah, that was one of my favorites. But the first person that did that, that I saw do that at least in post posted on social media was in Canada and they had broken a, a Jeep xj and they were way back into the woods and they had like, okay, well

Sean P. Holman (1h 7m 28s):

Try and do that with casters. Yeah. By,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 7m 30s):

That’s pretty damn inventive, right?

Chuck Foreman (1h 7m 32s):

Yeah. And they’re like, how are we gonna get this outta here? Yeah. And somebody said, well, why don’t we strap this jack that’s made to roll so much easier Yeah. To the axle of the Jeep and see how far we make it. And they made it all the way out and back home. So Yeah. So that was the first person I saw. They’re going

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 7m 46s):

Down the highway at 55 guy. That’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 7m 47s):

Fun. Right. Sparks coming up. Temporary spare. No problem. I mean, what they don’t really mean 20 miles an hour at 5 45.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 7m 54s):

No, wait a minute. What’s your speed rating on those little wheels?

Chuck Foreman (1h 7m 57s):

Right. Yeah. So that’s one of the things, as we say a

Sean P. Holman (1h 7m 60s):


Chuck Foreman (1h 8m 1s):

We say in the instructions, do not use the jack as a dolly. This is a lifting device only.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 6s):

So do you really have to say that in the instructions? We

Chuck Foreman (1h 8m 8s):

Do have to say that. Yeah. So unfortunately it’s a, it’s a, it’s a line we walk and do we show this on social media knowing that we’re telling customers not to do it. But it’s too cool not to. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 18s):

You have to, you

Sean P. Holman (1h 8m 18s):

Have to. Everybody gets the, you know, still,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 21s):

But more go back to jack safety. I feel like there’s more more points we have to talk about. Like where if you don’t have an obvious jack point, what do you do? Because again, we talked about the sand rail. Yeah. I still don’t fully know where you would jack up a sand rail, you know, just like what do you, what do you do in that case?

Chuck Foreman (1h 8m 35s):

Yeah, so that one’s, like I said, it’s made to have a flat bottom so that you can skim across and you know, if you bottom out or sip or whatever, you’re not gonna have something that’s gonna grab the sand and, and stop you. So you, you’d lift from that flat bottom of the, of the vehicle. So it’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 50s):

Like where the aluminum meets a cross member or like a tube. Okay, got

Sean P. Holman (1h 8m 53s):

It. So two frame, but then you would use like the Pro Eagle has like the round disc with

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 57s):

Like a flat hard, hard rubber puck

Sean P. Holman (1h 8m 59s):

Or something. Yeah. And then that puck would go right up against a cross member. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Or of the tube frame.

Chuck Foreman (1h 9m 3s):

Yeah. And we have some new accessories now that’s, you know, parts that would attach to a lower axle or a tube or a bumper or whatever it may be. But for the most part it’s just whatever flat component that you can get to. I always tell people lift from the lowest part possible and the closest to the ball join or the hub possible. You know, there’s some angles on suspension and stuff like that. You just can’t do that. But on a straight out truck you can get pretty far out to that ball joint or, or kingpin or whatever it may be. So if you can

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 9m 32s):

Go to that lower control arm all the way out, do it all

Chuck Foreman (1h 9m 34s):

The way out as close to the ball joint as you can because you wanna lift the least amount possible. Okay. The higher you go the more unstable it gets. But you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 9m 40s):

Wanna make sure though that, that it doesn’t slip off. And because that lower control arm, let’s assume it’s got

Sean P. Holman (1h 9m 45s):

An angle on, that’s why you’re gonna go at the bottom of the spindle of the ball joint. ’cause usually ’cause it’s flat, you it’s a flat spot there. Yeah. Okay. Otherwise you’re Yeah. The, the downward angle of full droop is gonna not give you a place that you can, you know, get a a, a firm

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 9m 59s):

Perpendicular flat. Yeah,

Sean P. Holman (1h 10m 0s):

Yeah. A flat edge to be able to pick it up. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (1h 10m 3s):

That’s why, you know, other than crawling underneath the vehicle and you know, on your hands and knees and putting a, a bottle jack underneath there, that’s why generally those are a little bit safer to use than most other jacks just because you can lift a couple inches rather than, you know, feet that you would do with a farm jack or something like that bumper. A farm jacket you have to attach to a steel rock slider. Yep. Or a steel front or rear bumper. Bumper. And you’ve gotta lift through all the Wheel travel of the vehicle before it pulls the tire off the ground. So on a decently built Jeep, your bumper could end up being four feet in the air before the tire even comes off the ground. So you’ve got a vehicle that’s, you know, mostly four feet in the air as you’re trying to change the tire and work

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 10m 44s):

On it. I’ve

Sean P. Holman (1h 10m 44s):

Some of those small jack base. Right. Which is, which is not great for stability

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 10m 48s):

Down in Huntington. I think Holman, when You and I were there last time for that, for G Beach, they had the articulation contest or whatever it was where they have two different bars that they drive up and it, what is it called? There’s a, there’s a name,

Sean P. Holman (1h 10m 58s):

There’s a, well there’s a ramp travel index task where it’s a ramp a ramp travel car or there’s a one is

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 11m 3s):

Fully drooped out and one is squatted up. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (1h 11m 5s):

Metal metal club has a hydraulic trailer you can drive up that does that too.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 11m 8s):

Maybe that’s what it is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What is the price range for a Pro Eagle jack for entry level, which is still better than anything you’d get at your competitors. Right? Right. To the top dog. Yeah. Max travel highest capacity.

Chuck Foreman (1h 11m 24s):

So it’s funny that initially the, the one that came out without the large wheels on it, initially we were $250 and that’s what people were like, oh my gosh. Like there’s no way you’re ever gonna sell one of those at $250. Now we don’t have anything under $299. Yeah. So the two ton big Wheel starts at 5 20, 5 30. The three ton is 5 99. The 1.5 ton is like in the high four hundreds. And then we just released a shop jack. So in doing research, I found out that the people that weren’t buying my jack weren’t necessarily buying my jack because they didn’t want a Pro Eagle they bought it because I’m using in the garage.

Chuck Foreman (1h 12m 10s):

I don’t need to have a skid plate, I don’t need the extension. don don’t need all that stuff. But my garage, I live in Arkansas or Oklahoma or whatever and it’s asphalt. Yeah. Or my driveway is just not a perfect driveway and I just can’t roll a traditional jack through there. I love your guys’. Jack But, I don’t have, I can’t justify spinning,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 12m 28s):

This is why I wanted

Sean P. Holman (1h 12m 29s):

Too much Jack for me.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 12m 30s):

Right. This is why I wanted one for banks. Right. And we don’t have one because we do, we’ve got three bays, Holman seen a million times. We’ve got three bays outside and we re blacktop every I, don wanna say like every three to four years actually hire

Sean P. Holman (1h 12m 44s):

Four dudes and all they do is pick vehicles up in the back. Yeah. Right.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 12m 47s):

That’s crazy. Linebackers. No, but like we, we re what do you call it? The re asphalting? It’s, there’s a name for slurry. Slurry. Thank you. So we will re slurry every so often. Right. It’s quote unquote smoother. But it’s still, if you take a a, the little tiny wheels on, you know, just crack the Oh yeah. Oh my God. And it sounds and it squeaks and it’s, it’s, it’s awful. Right. So we need those Yeah. Badly. ’cause we’re lifting stuff out all the time. Right. ’cause we’re, our lifts are taken and anyway, so I can imagine now, now that you say that it makes perfect sense to the guy with gravel or just uneven surfaces, whatever.

Chuck Foreman (1h 13m 21s):

Yeah. Yeah. So don don’t have a need to take it out into the, into the dirt or the sand. But I do work in imperfect conditions and I need something that rolls easier. But I can’t justify the fact that your guys have, you know, the built in skid plate and all these other accessories that I don’t necessarily need. So that’s why I bought the other brand because it was cheaper, less expensive. You know, in the end it ended up costing me more money. But, you know, initially that’s a, it’s an easier pill to swallow. So that’s why we came out with a shop jack, which is, it starts off lower, it can be used on compact cars. It doesn’t have a skid plate, it doesn’t come with an extension. It doesn’t have some of the other accessories that we have made an a name for ourselves in the off-road industry built into it.

Chuck Foreman (1h 14m 2s):

So, but

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 3s):

It also, but again, they don’t need ’em.

Chuck Foreman (1h 14m 4s):

Right. But it also has a much lower price point. It’s, yeah,

Sean P. Holman (1h 14m 7s):

I mean for 2 99, 2 99

Chuck Foreman (1h 14m 9s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 14m 9s):

A hell of a jack especially. So you go to Pro Eagle dot com and you can go under parts and like anything you would need wheels, the hydraulics, the replacement pump, the handles, axles, I mean on and on the pads, the extension pins. If you happen to lose your extension pin, your Wheel C clips, all that stuff you could buy individually. Right. And rebuild that. So you could basically buy, I mean it’s, we probably shouldn’t tell people this, but you could buy it once and just keep rebuilding it. Yeah,

Chuck Foreman (1h 14m 35s):

Yeah, yeah. We see people at King of the Hammers that have, you know, like, weren’t you here last year? Like Yep. Yeah. I just wanna, you know, get the fluid changed in it, you know, or whatever, you know, and we’ll be the first one to admit that we don’t build a perfect product, especially the way that people at KOH and the racing industry abuse them. But that’s why we’re there is, you know, you know, you can abuse the crap outta got. Right. And, and we’ll, and we’ll take it, number one, it’s a, it’s a customer service issue. We’re, we’re rebuilding it for them. Now they have a working product, but we take the guts out of that, that have failed and we take it back and Molly opens them up and we find out why did this one fail? You know, we thought we solved that issue. We thought we fixed this issue. Is it something new or is it this just guy just, you know, dropped it out of a helicopter, you know, what happened to it and why did it, did it stop?

Chuck Foreman (1h 15m 20s):

So that’s the biggest reason that we go out there. I mean, you know, we say that it’s customer service and it’s a great service that we offer, but it’s more research for us to figure out how we can make ’em better. What

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 15m 30s):

Do you suppose a percentage is of guys like me who would buy them? Because it’s cool and I don’t really need that much. Jack,

Chuck Foreman (1h 15m 37s):

In the beginning I

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 38s):

Would say say 0%, all those customers are 100% committed to the product.

Chuck Foreman (1h 15m 41s):

Yeah, yeah. In the beginning I would, I would say

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 43s):

No posers. Well you’re making fun of yourself. I am. Which is great. Yeah. But you’re also, you know, let’s not

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 15m 49s):

No, I’m saying like he knows that there’s, he’s got a large portion of the real racers Yes. That need it. It’s an arrow in their quiver. Right. For me it’s just in my, like the, the to have it in my garage. That’s just like, so my buddy comes over drinking beers, he’s like, damn, Pro Eagle makes one for your shop. Yeah. That’s rad. How much is like they know it’s the premium product, right?

Chuck Foreman (1h 16m 8s):

Yeah. Yeah. So like I said in the beginning, there was probably 50, 60% of our, our users were people that just bought it for the social status of it. And now that’s probably much lower than that. 10 to 15% or are buying them just because it’s the coolest thing to have. But you know, we have quite a few people, I had a gall call from a guy just last week who went into the previous mention knockoff company. And they do a really good job of, you know, they had a giant poster there that says this is ours and it’s 3 29 and this is theirs and it’s 5 99. That’s it. You know, it’s just price, price, price, price, price, price. Yep. So he was like, okay, well that’s great, but you know, is this the right jack for me and my purpose and my needs?

Chuck Foreman (1h 16m 53s):

Well we have a smaller jack if you want that. Okay, well will a smaller jack work for what I need? And he tried to explain what he needed and he is like, well I, I don’t don don’t know, you know, Oliver Jacks are on this aisle, pick the one you want and buy.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 17m 4s):

It’s just a minimum wage. Yeah, right. Salesperson that’s stocking the aisles or whatever.

Chuck Foreman (1h 17m 8s):

Right. So he was like, I didn’t know that you guys existed. He was in Idaho or something like that. And he’s like, you know, they did a very good job of saying this is a knockoff of the Pro Eagle. So I left and I did a little research and I found you guys and I found your website. So I’m gonna tell you right up front, and I’m calling you to find out which Jack you recommend for my vehicle. I may go back to Harbor Freight and buy the cheaper Jack But. I. Want to know? Well

Sean P. Holman (1h 17m 31s):

Talk to me. Alright. I don wanna know, it’s almost like they’re building brand awareness for you, right. Because people are going into there going, I didn’t know there was another guy. Right. Well, hold on a second. I got my Harbor Freight coupons and they’re the, they’re shaking in my fingers. But I wanna go see what they’re copying Right. And how good they did. Right. Exactly. So you’re probably gonna get some customers just from a brand awareness from your competitor talking about you.

Chuck Foreman (1h 17m 52s):

Right? Yeah. Yeah. So he explained what he did and he worked for the power company. He was a subcontractor. He had a utility body GMC 2,500. And he is like, look, I’ll probably never use this, but there’s plenty of times where I’m 65 years old, I’m out 50, 60 miles away from help. And I want to have something that I can self recover if I need to. Yeah. So what is the right jack for me? Oh, he’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 18m 15s):

Got a corporate card. Yeah. He can buy your jack. Yeah,

Sean P. Holman (1h 18m 19s):

It’s fine. We like those people.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 18m 20s):

Yeah, I know, right? So

Chuck Foreman (1h 18m 22s):

I then taught him that, you know, you don’t need to have the three ton Jack, you can get away with the two ton Jack. If you’re 65 years old and you’ve got bad knees and you’ve got arthritis and whatever, do you wanna lift a 68 pound jack or do you want to lift a 55 pound jack? The 55 pound jack sounds much better. But will a two ton lift my truck? Absolutely. You know, how much does it weigh? It’s 6,500 pounds. Are you lifting the whole car at once or just the corner at a time? No, just the corner at a time. If I have a flat tire, if it’s more than that, I’m calling somebody. But if it’s a flat tire, yeah. I’m lifting one corner at a time that’s nowhere near 6,500 pounds. No, you’re right. Okay. What do you guys have that I can carry it safely in my vehicle? We make a stainless steel amount for it,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 18m 60s):

You know, and you make, so you’ve got a, you’ve got a bag for it, you’ve got a, a jack cover. Yep. Right. You even have cleaner and detailers. Right.

Chuck Foreman (1h 19m 6s):

So we went through the whole process and he is like, all right, I’ll give you my credit card. You know, I wanna place an order with your right now. So he ended up buying the two ton Jack a stainless steel mount. It comes with the cover, it comes with all the accessories. We make a toolkit, or actually we partnered with box of tools and we make a toolkit that fits in the mount between the handles so that it’s just the minimum amount of tools that you’ll need to change a tire. It’s a breaker bar, three sockets and an extension. That’s it. And you can’t buy just a single socket when You go to any parts store. They sell you a whole kit. Right. You, so he’s like, oh, that’s a killer deal. I don’t have tools to be able to change a tire anyway, so add that to it, you know, and he bought some cleaner and he bought a couple other

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 19m 45s):

Accessories. That’s awesome. That,

Sean P. Holman (1h 19m 46s):

And he probably felt good ’cause he had a human contact. Right. Like the human experience. And, and he went,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 19m 50s):

He’s like, son, you know what you’re talking about? I wanna buy something

Sean P. Holman (1h 19m 53s):

All my money. Right.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 19m 54s):

And it’s just like, I, I love the fact that again, I’m gonna go back to, you work at a much larger company, but here you are as the GM of this brand, talking to the dude, talking to the customer. Yeah. Like that doesn’t happen much these days.

Chuck Foreman (1h 20m 11s):

Right. Yeah. I’ve listened to quite a few things and you know, even the younger guys, now you go, I hate to say it now, listen to different podcasts too, but Donut Media guys, so listen to them. I was

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 20m 22s):

Just at Donut with Gale Banks, right? Yeah. So he’s coming out on, on mechanics, what is it? Real Mechanics. Yeah, exactly. Yep. He’s, we just shot an episode with them two weeks ago. Yeah. But he’s like, I wish funny as hell by the way. Yeah, no, you’re gonna love it.

Chuck Foreman (1h 20m 35s):

I I wish corporations

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 20m 37s):

I’m sorry. Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you. It’s called mechanic stuff Worries.

Chuck Foreman (1h 20m 39s):

He’s like, I wish corporations would realize that we need humans back. Yeah. You know, I don’t want to press one for English and get somebody that doesn’t speak English. Right. I don’t want to get a machine, I don’t wanna get an automated service. I’m the guy that’s yelling in my phone saying talk to a representative. Yeah. Right. So he’s like, it’s awesome to get companies that have representatives. It’s like

Sean P. Holman (1h 20m 58s):

Going to the parts department and the old guy in the back and every part number. Right? Like now we don’t sell parts we’re we replace modules. Like, oh, that whole thing comes as a module and you, and it’s, there’s so much waste and it’s all designed not to last anymore. And it’s, it’s, it sucks. Like I I, I worked the parts counter for a couple dealerships for, you know, three, four years and I miss the old guy teaching me. Like, I still remember like the Ford FL one, a oil filter that fit like almost everything. Right. It just like you, there’s part numbers that are in my head from when I was outta high school. But you wish you could get rid of Yeah. I mean they just take up space that could be like other things like my anniversary or something. Right. You know, other important details in my life.

Sean P. Holman (1h 21m 39s):

It doesn’t matter FL one A though. I know, I know, I know. An oil filter to get you. Yeah.

Chuck Foreman (1h 21m 44s):

Yeah. But yeah, we, we add that customer service and that human element back to it. And you know, go back to that story. The guy spent $300 more than he would’ve if he had bought the Harbor Freight jack and he was happy about it.

Sean P. Holman (1h 21m 57s):

Yeah. Where did the name Pro Eagle come from?

Chuck Foreman (1h 22m 0s):

So we actually, it was, so all of the, there was a in-house brand of fifth Wheel hitches and weight distribution hitches. So we were building those 30 years ago and it was called Eagle Pro. So those other companies that we manufacture now came to the company previous to me being there because they were manufacturing there. There’s actually very little companies now that manufacture Yeah. Everything’s farmed out to, to other companies. Yeah. Even in the Jack industry, there’s really only maybe five or six companies that build product. You know, they may even have their own brand, but they build product for other companies. So they came to Austin International because they were already building fifth wheels and wage dis distribution hitches and it was Eagle Pro and to me that just didn’t sound right.

Chuck Foreman (1h 22m 49s):

Yeah. So we changed it to Pro. Eagle. So there you go. Yeah. So it already existed. And then if you, if you own a Ford Super Duty or a Jeep or anything like that, that has a Drop Pitman arm, go out and look in your driveway land underneath it and look. And the Drop Pitman arm probably has a little Eagle laser engraved on it. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. And that was ours. It’s an Eagle Pro Pitman

Sean P. Holman (1h 23m 10s):

Arm. Check it out. Yeah. Alright, well if you guys wanna find out more Pro Eagle dot com or on, on Facebook, it’s Pro Eagle jacks Instagram, Pro Eagle. You guys have a YouTube page. There’s a lot of cool content. If you go to the about on the website there’s our story and then there’s review videos, frequently asked questions, cool stuff from King of the Hammers. Like you could get lost on the website.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 34s):

How about just go there and buy something. Well do that too. Works. Support your, support. Your boy here. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (1h 23m 39s):

And by the way, if you, if you call them you get real human, you’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 43s):

Gonna talk to Chuck.

Chuck Foreman (1h 23m 44s):

Yeah. I’m gonna be able to tell you more than the Jacks are located on all three. There

Sean P. Holman (1h 23m 47s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 47s):

Go. I think though that this, after this podcast, they’ve learned about all they need to know that to make this purchase decision. Yeah, I think so. All right. I hope so.

Sean P. Holman (1h 23m 56s):

Pro Eagle dot com Do it. Thank

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 57s):

You very much for, for coming in. Yeah. Thank you

Chuck Foreman (1h 23m 59s):

For having me. How’s excited about

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 60s):

This one, Jennifer? Everything okay sitting over there? Not bored. Stiff. Okay.

Sean P. Holman (1h 24m 4s):

Wow. All right.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 8s):

All right. Here comes Holman, the Wall Street Journal of Truck News.

7 (1h 24m 12s):

What’s new in trucks?

8 (1h 24m 14s):

We need to know

7 (1h 24m 15s):

What’s new in trucks.

8 (1h 24m 16s):

We need to know

7 (1h 24m 18s):

What’s new in trucks. We

8 (1h 24m 20s):

Need to know.

4 (1h 24m 21s):

Lifted, lowered and everything in between. What’s happening in the world of trucks?

9 (1h 24m 27s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 33s):

Was that the little piece of poop from No, that’s Mr. Hanky

Sean P. Holman (1h 24m 37s):

South Park. That’s Mr. Hanky.

9 (1h 24m 39s):

How? How?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 41s):

That’s pretty good, Mr. Hanky girl.

Sean P. Holman (1h 24m 44s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 44s):

Hold on. It’s not the first

Sean P. Holman (1h 24m 45s):

Time you’ve done

9 (1h 24m 47s):

I, Mr. Hanky

Sean P. Holman (1h 24m 50s):

Wanna No tally. Tally’s the one that gets high, right? Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 53s):

Yeah. Tally gets high.

Sean P. Holman (1h 24m 54s):

Yeah, I’m tally. Wanna get high?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 57s):

You do a better run Mr.

Sean P. Holman (1h 24m 58s):

Hanky. Mr. Hanky. I haven’t heard Mr. Hanky in a long time. Interesting. Anyway. Alright. Lots of news going on. We can start with Ford. Have I heard? No, you haven’t heard this?

10 (1h 25m 8s):

No. And I don’t

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 10s):

Care. No, I haven’t heard.

Sean P. Holman (1h 25m 11s):

Hey Lighting, Have You Heard.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 13s):

No, but did you

Sean P. Holman (1h 25m 14s):


11 (1h 25m 15s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 19s):

I have not heard. If it’s Ford it’s gotta be bad news. Is it a recall?

Sean P. Holman (1h 25m 22s):

Well, well actually we have that too. But I was gonna start with the fact that Ford is Hmm, well,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 30s):

Making a 720 horsepower raptor that you’re hucking through the desert. Well,

Sean P. Holman (1h 25m 35s):

According to Bloomberg, Ford is reportedly losing $100,000 on every EV it sells right now. No,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 42s):

No, no, no, no, no, no. That’s what they’re saying. No, what they’re losing how much?

Sean P. Holman (1h 25m 47s):

Over a hundred thousand for per vehicle.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 53s):

How does that work? It’s lot. That’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 25m 54s):

A lot of chatter.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 55s):

Wait a minute. A hundred thousand dollars.

Sean P. Holman (1h 25m 57s):

’cause it’s being treated like a startup. So there’s a lot of investment going in and RD and all that stuff and they haven’t recouped it yet. And so as they are bringing up their vehicles investment, selling ’em, it’s a slow burn until they get to a point of parody. So, you know, it sounds bad. It is bad.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 26m 14s):

It, it is

Sean P. Holman (1h 26m 15s):

Bad. Ford is definitely cutting back on, on some of their future EV goals, I guess. But Ford EV sales were up 86% through the first quarter of the year. So obviously that’s still a, a tiny, tiny, tiny part of what Ford sell. Currently, they have 20,223 models sold for the Mach EF one 50, Lightning and Eran all combined. So which one do you think is

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 26m 39s):

The worst performer? Or which one is the, the bigger dud

Sean P. Holman (1h 26m 42s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 26m 42s):

Or the bigger, I guess.

Sean P. Holman (1h 26m 43s):

No, I don’t, I don’t think you can say that because it’s supply chain. You don’t know. I would say that the Mach e sells the most F-150 in the middle.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 26m 50s):

I’m just thinking like the, it seems like the, the F-150 Lightning, it plateaued really quickly and then fell off. People were like, well, this is super cool. I’m over it. No one’s buying it. Well,

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 1s):

I, I think, I think there were a number of people who were the early adopters, so they picked theirs up early.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 9s):

I don’t see any lightnings on the road.

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 11s):

There’s one on my street over here. Okay. And there’s one over here. I’ve got two neighbors with them. I’ve saw four or five on the road today coming back from Palm Springs. They’re out there. You just have to look for

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 23s):

’em. I do look for them.

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 24s):

Well, the thing is, is that if you catch ’em outta the corner of your eye, they look like just a regular old F-150. You

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 29s):

Gotta see the grill. Trust me, I I know them. They’re pretty obvious right

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 33s):

At night. They’re obvious because they have that

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 34s):

No, when the day time,

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 35s):

They’re obvious eyebrow.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 37s):

Hmm. I’m just not seeing that many. They, I don’t think they’re selling that well. I see a lot more mach eases. I’ll tell you that for sure.

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 43s):

So according to this, here it says that Ford sold 7,743 lightnings in Q1 of 2024.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 50s):

Okay, well that explains why I haven’t seen that many on the road.

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 53s):

The increase of about 80% from last year at this time. So Q1 of 2023, which was 42 91 for comparison, GMC’s Hummer EV sold a whopping 1,668. Ouch. So now, now who’s selling all the EVs?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 11s):

All right. Hey,

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 11s):

Lightning have You Heard.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 13s):

No. No.

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 15s):

So speaking of alternative fuels, apparently Ram’s HD is gonna be coming to market with a hydrogen fuel cell.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 23s):

Really? So that’s what’s gonna replace the Cummin 6.7 liter.

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 27s):

Don don’t know why you keep saying that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 28s):

Interesting. I don’t know why

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 30s):

You say that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 31s):

Just trying to plant the seed. Mm. I you know why I

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 34s):

Say that? Because you hate people.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 36s):

No, because hate our audience. I just, so there’re Ford guys love Fords.

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 40s):

If they have fuel cells

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 41s):

G guys, do

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 42s):

You think they’ll call it fueling cells in ab g together? Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 46s):

Like GM guys love their DM Max, but Cummins guys

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 50s):

Don’t love anyone, don’t

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 51s):

They? No, I’m saying they love Cummins more. They’re the guys getting tattooed. So, so why are you, I’m saying why are you

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 57s):

Like poking the bear?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 57s):

Because I just think it’s, I think it’s a little, it’s gonna be amusing when there’s no more Cummins in the ram. At some point it’ll happen, right? I don’t know. They’re gonna cry themselves to sleep every night

Sean P. Holman (1h 29m 10s):

And you’re going to, or like enjoy their tears. Like what are you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 13s):

Saying? I think, I think so. A little

Sean P. Holman (1h 29m 15s):

Bit. Truck show podcast at gmail dot com. If you want to share the same hate that Lightning has for you, cum

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 21s):

Thoses. I think you’re gonna say, I love my truck. If I own a Cummins powered Ram, you’re going to like, I’m never gonna sell this. I’m gonna go to the grave with this thing. I’m gonna be buried with this truck. Right? But what about all the new guys They wanna upgrade and they can’t. ’cause how dare Ram replace the beloved Cummins? Hasn’t happened yet. But I. Think it will.

Sean P. Holman (1h 29m 40s):

Alright, moving right along. Hey, Lighting, Have You Heard.

12 (1h 29m 43s):

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 46s):

No, no. I haven’t.

Sean P. Holman (1h 29m 48s):

Apparently Nitsa has opened a probe 200,000 for super duties for a fuel leak risk. So apparently there’s a preliminary investigation or evaluation into 210,960 for super duties F two fifties, three fifties, four fifties, and five fifties. With the 6.7 that goes from 2015 to 20 21, 27 complaints have been received, including 12 reports of fires and four injuries.

Sean P. Holman (1h 30m 31s):

Normally when You hear about these recalls are caught before anyone gets hurt. Right. Hey, wait,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 30m 34s):

Wait, listen, carefully hear this. Listen carefully. I can hear their accountants all the way in Michigan.

Sean P. Holman (1h 30m 42s):

Well, you know, they’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 30m 45s):

The accounting department’s like seriously not again. Yeah. They’re not, not,

Sean P. Holman (1h 30m 48s):

They’re just not having a great, so

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 30m 50s):

We get me an engineer on the phone. Why do we keep having to shell out money for all these

Sean P. Holman (1h 30m 54s):

Fixes? Not having a great time when it comes to recalls right now. That’s for sure. And and I swear they built a good truck. They do. Just, I don’t understand what

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 3s):

I love the new Super duty. I couldn’t love

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 5s):

It more. I know. But here we are. Here

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 8s):

We are.

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 11s):

Hey, Lighting, Have, You Heard.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 15s):

No, I haven’t. Turns

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 16s):

Out Indios is seeing some success and they’re talking about offering two more SUVs and may build a US factory.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 24s):

Will they name them after other childish drinks?

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 28s):

It’s named after a pub.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 30s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 31s):

Which is not a childish drink. It’s actually an adult

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 33s):

Beverage. It’s Grenadine.

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 34s):

It’s not the Grenadine. Oh. I think it would be cool. They, they’re, they’re, they’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 40s):

Cool. I’m seeing truckloads of them headed down the 6 0 5 freeway ever so often.

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 44s):

More than you see Lightnings. Yes. More. There you go. I

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 46s):

Like legitimately am. Hey, I almost couldn’t get that word out. That was strange. Well, I, and yet here it

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 53s):

Is. Here it is. Hey, Lighting Have You Heard.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 57s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 57s):

I wanna open this portion of the news with stupid idiots being stupid and I’m Are

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 32m 4s):

You gonna talk about me?

Sean P. Holman (1h 32m 6s):

I wasn’t. But now I have a third story. It just seems like the world is full of stupid. A-holes who, who have no respect or sense or any of that. So in, how

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 32m 18s):

Are you gonna discuss the woman in the Mercedes in the fast lane in front of me all the way to your house this afternoon? No, she just stacked. There’s no one in front of her for two miles and just stacked a hundred cars and everyone just goes around her. She won’t

Sean P. Holman (1h 32m 31s):

Move. I am not, that’s that

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 32m 33s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 32m 33s):

I’m gonna talk about some stupid person. Between the time of April 1st and April 24th, went off highway where they shouldn’t have been in death Valley got stuck and then winched off a historic, basically from the salt tram. So the Saline Valley salt tram that goes up to like Sarah Gordo. Yeah. So the tower number one that’s down on the lake bed. No, they used it as a winch anchor point. No. And ripped it down. No. Stop Doing Stupid Things. This is why we can’t have nice things. No,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 33m 7s):

Lemme see this photo. Hold on.

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 10s):

Ripped it right straight to the ground. Pulled the concrete mounting out of the mud and everything. Oh, is

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 33m 16s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 17s):

So check this out. Did they catch

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 33m 18s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 18s):

Person this? No, this tower was put in place by the Saline Valley salt coming in 1911. It’s part of the 13 mile aerial tram that carried salt from the Saline Valley to the Owens Valley climbing more than 7,000 feet with grades up to 40 degrees. It was an impressive feat of engineering back then. And some of the remnants that exist like this tower are there for people to enjoy the history and what the freak is going on. Some dude gets his thing stuck. And

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 33m 46s):

Then Can I ask Lloyd, do we know that for sure? Or was it someone who just pulled it down? ’cause like the kids up in Utah that defaced one of those rocks.

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 53s):

The, the, the NPS seems to think that it’s somebody, there’s I guess some sort of markings on it that makes them think they connected a winch to pull ’em out because there were ruts and clearly were vehicles stuck in front of it. And anyways. So it’s just, it’s just sad.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 34m 10s):

Is there a conservancy that will help rebuild it or prop it

Sean P. Holman (1h 34m 12s):

Back up? Well, the National Park Service. Oh, they will. Yeah. It’s part of the national park. Will

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 34m 16s):

Will they prop it back up or this is down? It’s down forever.

Sean P. Holman (1h 34m 18s):

Well, yeah. Well it’s called restitution. They wanna find the fricking a-hole who did it and make him pay. It’s so according to superintendent Mike Reynolds, I’ve hiked along sections of this tramway and amazed by the tenacity it took to build, I hope the person responsible for this damage will contact us so we can discuss restitution unquote. Yeah, he’s not very happy about That won’t happen. Neither am I. That person will be embarrassed forever. You know what, it’s, it’s been there for 113 years. If you know the guy that somebody’s gonna dime that dude out or that dude’s gonna be like, you know what, I didn’t realize what it was and I messed up. And then hopefully they

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 34m 52s):

Can. So the thing is, no one goes out there alone. Right? You gotta think that he was with a wife or buddy with somebody or something like that.

Sean P. Holman (1h 34m 58s):

Yeah. don don’t know it. Just thumbs out.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 34m 59s):

Do you think it’s city folk like someone who

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 1s):

Don don’t know. I’m not gonna drove out there.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 3s):

No, it’s just, it’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 4s):

An idiot. It’s an idiot who did something and they shouldn’t have done, and they didn’t wanna get stuck being off road where they were and they went, oh, here’s a structure, I’m gonna winch it. And then they winched over and they went OF Is there

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 13s):

Cell service out there? Yeah,

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 14s):

There’s cell service. I don’t if so, they could call for help don don’t know if that particular spot, but, oh, anyway. And then the second thing that stupid, it’s being stupid, is you guys have probably all seen the video where some guy has his F four 50 at 84 miles an hour with sandbags on the Wheel and cruise control and he is laying in the back seat. Yeah. Prob probably a social media stunt, but it’s like, that doesn’t even have Blue Cruise, which is, you know, the hands-free steering stuff. This just has lane keep assist essentially. And adaptive cruise control. Like what an idiot.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 46s):

That’s insane. Like what? I mean that’s, that’s that’s that’s a 6,000 pound missile.

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 51s):

Six th it’s f four 50. That’s,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 52s):

Oh, it’s like 10,000 pound missile. I thought, I I I didn’t realize you said four 50.

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 57s):

Four 50 going down the road with a dude in the backseat, like then knock it off.

13 (1h 36m 4s):

What the

Sean P. Holman (1h 36m 4s):

Hell is wrong with you? Yeah, apparently his name’s Cameron, James Crawford and you can find him probably deleted by now at under, under c Crawford under, so I’m sure it’s a troll account. People stop being stupid. That’s all I’m saying. They’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 36m 20s):

Doing it for the gram, you know. I

Sean P. Holman (1h 36m 22s):

Know, but it,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 36m 23s):

He’s doing it for the gram.

Sean P. Holman (1h 36m 23s):

Stop doing it for the gram. Like just, just knock it off already. Maybe I’m just sensitive ’cause my 16 year old’s about to drive.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 36m 32s):

I think you are a little bit,

Sean P. Holman (1h 36m 33s):

Well, I still don’t want people to, to be stupid.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 36m 37s):

It’s been about a month since we’ve checked in with the Five Star Hotline 6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5 6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5. So let’s do it.

14 (1h 36m 47s):

Oh, on of the show called the Five Star Hotline 6 5 7 2 0 5 6 1 0 5. It’s the Five Star Hotline Five Star Hotline

15 (1h 37m 3s):

Lightning Holman. Hey, just wanted to give a quick comment on the whole getting the seven three diesel wrong. Like Yeah, that’s, that’s pretty disappointing. But I gotta give it up to Lightning. When I sent in my XR 400 clip and he was like, no dude, that’s, that’s a dirt bike. No, that’s got a custom exhaust on or aftermarket exhaust on it and it’s a Honda. I was like, my jaw was literally on my chest when he was able to guess that much. Right. So I felt like I I’m gonna get, personally, I’m gonna give you a buy. I’m not getting a seven three. Right. I’m not necessarily a Ford guide either, so maybe I just, I’m just gonna let it slide.

15 (1h 37m 44s):

Thanks guys. You have the good work. Five stars.

Sean P. Holman (1h 37m 48s):

Very nice.

16 (1h 37m 49s):

Congratulations. You have earned five stars.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 37m 53s):

That was one of my prouder moments

Sean P. Holman (1h 37m 55s):

In life or on the show,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 37m 56s):

Just on the show. Oh 6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5 available for you to call 24 hours a day.

15 (1h 38m 3s):

Lightning and Holman. This is Steven Watson, which Holman already knows because he gets the notification on his phone that probably tells him who calls.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 38m 12s):

I’m gonna pause it right there. There’s no way this is gonna be good for Lightning if Steven Watson’s calling, it’s gotta be some rip on Lightning, right?

Sean P. Holman (1h 38m 19s):

No, not necessarily. Hmm.

15 (1h 38m 21s):

But anyway, figured I would let you know that I’m one of the two listeners that knows these tricks about the catheter, which makes up what, three to 5% of your total listener base, which means you have a lot of racers in your listeners who have that many that actually know what you’re talking about.

Sean P. Holman (1h 38m 40s):

He’s talking about himself and probably Kevin Sterns are the racers that listen, they’re, they’re the two listeners. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 38m 46s):

You had a story about wearing a catheter and

Sean P. Holman (1h 38m 49s):

Yeah. And, and how not

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 38m 51s):

Allowing people to step on it to it snaps

Sean P. Holman (1h 38m 53s):

Your right because those junk, right. And you drop straight to the ground like a sniper rifle round

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 38m 57s):

Hit you. And I had a story about standing next to Josh Hall, who got back at me for poking fun at him by using his catheter to pee on me. That was

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 6s):

Well he didn’t pee on you. He just, he

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 39m 7s):

Pretty much Did

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 8s):

He just put, he

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 39m 9s):

Put a puddle behind? Well, I put a puddle to my feet.

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 12s):

That’s why you always have to be situationally aware.

15 (1h 39m 16s):

Yeah. Taping the hose to your leg is something that if you don’t think about it, you learn it very quick. And I kind of feel like we could probably write a manual or have an entire podcast segment on things about catheters. Because some of the funniest stories that you ever hear are from desert racers talking about catheter.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 39m 39s):

How about No,

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 40s):

I’m, I’m on board. No, I think this is hilarious.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 39m 42s):

See, I don’t,

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 43s):

This is good stuff

15 (1h 39m 44s):

And all of the, the fun that goes along with that. So anyway, there’s a little future seed for you. I can tell you just to get the party started that I have a near perfect record with catheters. I’ve only peed my pants a little bit once every other time. Even with hammers races getting in and out of the car a lot. Managed to keep the thing on. So I got some pretty good technique. So if we need to compare notes, I can let you know the, the finer ins and outs of making these things work. So anyway, that is all for now. Have good days.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 40m 24s):

So how do I ask this Holman without, because I’ve never worn one. Is it a sock that turns into a hose?

Sean P. Holman (1h 40m 31s):

Yeah, it’s a condom that has a hose on the end. Is that what it is? The reservoir tip is about 36 inches long. Do it has a, doesn’t have a tip. It has a just, it just ends like a tube. Oh, okay. Do your business. Where

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 40m 42s):

Do you find one? Small enough.

Sean P. Holman (1h 40m 44s):

I’ve never had that problem. In fact, I use the black cat extra extra Magnum. Sure you did. I do. Gotta wrap it around. Nevermind.

15 (1h 40m 54s):

What’s up guys? It’s Justin. You asked for some dealership.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 40m 59s):

Do you think he’s underwater or talking through a sock? Oh,

Sean P. Holman (1h 41m 1s):

I’m gonna go with talking through a sock underwater.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 4s):


15 (1h 41m 4s):

You asked for some dealership jargon and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 9s):

Dealership jargon.

15 (1h 41m 10s):

Take this as we you’ll, but some of the negative things that you had asked for. We would like to call some customers Jacks.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 20s):


15 (1h 41m 20s):

A as the name implies Jack. And then, wait,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 26s):

Hold I, I can’t I I’m call ’em a jack. Like a jack ass. Yep. Oh, okay.

15 (1h 41m 32s):

Lining. You mentioned whales. We call those bricks because their credit is as solid as a brick. Oh

Sean P. Holman (1h 41m 39s):

There we go.

15 (1h 41m 40s):

Anyone with an 800 plus credit score say they’re bricks. Done deal. Let’s go. Bad credit people. Those are roaches.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 52s):

Roaches and

15 (1h 41m 54s):

Five stars. That was great. Talk to

Sean P. Holman (1h 41m 57s):

You later. So do we have more bricks, whales or roaches who listen to the show?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 42m 2s):

I think we have bricks. Lots of bricks. I think we do five stars review. Five stars Appreciate the five stars. But next time you get a brick and you close the deal, use some of that money for a new phone.

15 (1h 42m 17s):

Hey Holman Shane from Oregon was just filling up my truck and was singing about how you guys were talking about

Sean P. Holman (1h 42m 28s):

I like how he’s just talking to me now.

15 (1h 42m 32s):

How the computers are never accurate on especially American made cars where the Honda is perfect. My wife’s Mercedes is the same. It could take it to the 10th if it wanted to. I think they do it ’cause they don’t think we’re gonna do the math. You also put in eco mode. It makes it better on the computer even though nothing’s changing. Just the thought of the show guys. Keep it up

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 5s):

Up. It’s one of those things that you’re like, why can’t you just give me an accurate readout of my miles per gallon? I don’t get it.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 43m 13s):

I mean it’s based on fuel flow and a bunch of other things. I don’t You said it’s easy. No, I don isn’t that easy?

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 18s):

Absolutely. They’re metering. You know exactly what you’re metering into the engine. Precisely. More than ever. Hmm. How is the Honda identical every time to hang calculating and everything else that I have is not,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 43m 31s):

I don’t know. We should speak to an expert.

15 (1h 43m 33s):

Total woman and tow meter.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 43m 36s):

Wait, total Woman and tow meter.

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 39s):

Okay. Those are interesting slams. Go ahead.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 43m 42s):

Total woman. And to Mater.

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 44s):

I don’t know why you’re to Mater. I mean I’m whole man so he’s making fun of me there. But yeah, I don Know to Mater has to do with you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 43m 51s):

Because Lightning and, and oh maybe

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 53s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 43m 54s):

From from Froms. Cars. Cars movie and, okay. All right. And Mater and,

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 58s):

Alright carry on.

15 (1h 43m 60s):

I think you guys can figure out which of you is the which there.

Sean P. Holman (1h 44m 2s):

No, we just did.

15 (1h 44m 4s):

Just wanted to call in and say I enjoyed the last couple episodes. Especially the guy there that imports the mini trucks. He is, he was quite the guy there. I enjoyed listening to him. Also, I gotta spread the love for that last down effect that Lightning is so infatuated with. I too love it. I loved it long before it was ever played on The. Truck. Show Podcast gets me to laugh every time. So sorry Holman.

Sean P. Holman (1h 44m 33s):

That’s okay. You’re dead to me.

15 (1h 44m 34s):

I guess you’re outta luck on that one. Anyway. Last time I called in I didn’t introduce myself. Tristan calling in again. What’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 44m 45s):

Up Tristan?

Sean P. Holman (1h 44m 46s):

What’s up?

15 (1h 44m 47s):

I called in last time and you guys said that you couldn’t hear my freight liner running. Well that’s been my headset connected so I’ll disconnect that for just a little bit.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 45m 2s):

Did you, did you just get shot? What happened there?

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 16s):

Sounds like he’s running on bubbles.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 45m 18s):

Well I think what he did is he put it out the window and it’s just Yeah, the, the wind noise is killing the the microphone. All right, well

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 24s):

That was a disappointment. It’s really hoping to hear the Freightliner

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 45m 26s):

And instead we heard whale noises.

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 28s):

Don don’t think that was whale noise. I don Dunno what that was.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 45m 30s):

And by request Five Star

18 (1h 45m 32s):

Review. Five star

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 35s):

Mel Parameters. Alright, well if you are out there driving your big rig cross country and you got something to say, hit us up on the Five Star Hotline 6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5. We want hear from you. You could be on the show. Yeah. Give us a shout please.

3 (1h 45m 51s):

The truck show. The truck show. The truck show.

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 56s):

Whoa. And don’t forget to hit us up on our socials at Truck Show podcast at Sean P Holman at LBC Lightning or email truck show podcast at gmail dot com. Lightning at truck show podcast dot com or Holman at truck show podcast dot com. And don’t forget, pound over to our website truck show podcast dot com and you can look under events tab. We got quite a few events coming up here in the next few weeks.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 46m 22s):

We got a ton coming up. I think there’s Battle in Bama that’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 46m 26s):

Coming up that’s at the Talladega Super Speedway. May 30th through June 1st, but before that we’ve got the Beach Bash Florida in New Smyrna Speedway. That’s Bay 24 through 26th. May 30. Did

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 46m 38s):

You said that there’s like, like 35 Jeep events on there. What’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 46m 41s):

Up with Jeepers dude? Do they like it together? Do they

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 46m 43s):

Throw an event at the drop of a hat?

Sean P. Holman (1h 46m 44s):

Absolutely. It’s crazy. May 31st to June 2nd, you got the ultimate callout challenge at Luc Oil

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 46m 50s):

Raceway AMS oil in the

Sean P. Holman (1h 46m 51s):

House. That’s right. Our, our sponsor instruction podcast AMZ is also the title sponsor, the Ultimate Callout Challenge.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 46m 59s):

Oh, you know what’s gonna be in the booth on a table? But I Can’t tell you. Okay

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 3s):

Then I don. It’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 4s):

A special bank. Some sum that’s not available yet. Oh, all right. I just made a metal stand to hold this special something something. And that’s actually two something somethings.

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 11s):

Oh, it’s the oil cap and def

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 12s):

Cap. No it’s not. Oh,

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 14s):

Something else. It’s,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 14s):

You could put a, you could put a hundred oil and fuel and def caps in this thing.

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 22s):

Okay. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 23s):

It’s, it’s girth here. It’s ser

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 25s):

Sier. Alright, well if you are in New Hampshire near Harrisville, you’ll probably want to know all about Wheeling for Warriors Trail Run. That’s also May 31st. The June 1st at the field and Forest recreation area. And same weekend, 31 through the first Willies Jeep rally in Ohio at the Houston Woods Lodge. No,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 45s):

Which one

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 45s):

You go to and then, well, it depends where you live. Yeah. And then if you’re near mes, Michigan, golden Township Park is gonna be hosting the Jeep Invasion at Silver Lake Sand Dunes also May 31st of June 2nd. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 57s):

Have you ever been to Silver Lake Sand Dunes? I hear it’s actually pretty cool. It’s cool. Okay. Yeah, it’s awesome. Is it as big as glamorous? It’s not. No, no, no, no,

Sean P. Holman (1h 48m 3s):

No. It’s not. It’s, it’s big for the Midwest, but it’s not big compared to some of the stuff we have out here.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 48m 8s):

Do they have those crazy, like super sharp peaks or is it just rollers, do you know? Or is it a combination of both?

Sean P. Holman (1h 48m 13s):

Yeah, I mean it’s just, it’s sand dunes. It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s just a great place to go Test out your, your jeep, your truck, go, go have some fun. Put your flag on there, hang out with your buddies. And they actually host quite a few events. It’s over on the, the west side of the state. It’s a definitely a cool spot to go to.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 48m 28s):

Hey, and before we close out this episode, I’d like to ask you guys to please leave us a review. We’ve been keeping track of them. You can head over to the Apple Podcast app and if you scroll down, you’ll find the little reviews section. Please do leave us a review and the funnier the better. If, if it’s, if it cracks us up, we’ll read it on the show.

Sean P. Holman (1h 48m 46s):

And of course we gotta thank our presenting sponsor Nissan, who is the purveyor of really great trucks. So if you’re in the market for a new mid-size truck, check out the Nissan Frontier starting at 30,005 10. And moving on up to the Pro four X, which is my personal favorite. You can go to Nissan usa dot com to build and price the Nissan truck for your driveway. Or pick one up at your local Nissan dealer and just tell ’em Lightning and Holman sent you. And

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 49m 10s):

If you’re towing heavy with your gm, Ford, or Ram, you need to cool those rear end gears. Head on over to banks power dot com. Type in your make and model to get your patented Ram Air rear differential cover. The cooler the lube, the longer your gears will last.

Sean P. Holman (1h 49m 24s):

Well, speaking of lube, I’ve got the, the perfect lube for you. Lightning.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 49m 28s):

Oh, 75 W 90 severe gear.

Sean P. Holman (1h 49m 31s):

Did you know that when You look at the SAE Viscosities that gear oil is different than motor oil. Yes. And that gear oil is actually thinner than the same than the equivalent viscosity of motor oil.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 49m 44s):

Nah, I don don’t know if I knew that.

Sean P. Holman (1h 49m 45s):

It’s kind of interesting. So people don’t know that. ’cause they’re like, why is my motor oil thicker at a lower viscosity than my 75, you know, one 40 gear oil? And it’s ’cause they use different scales. So there you go. There’s a little, little SAE viscosity nugget for

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 50m 0s):

You guys. God, I thought I knew everything about. I didn’t know that. There

Sean P. Holman (1h 50m 2s):

You go. I Interesting. Learn something new every day. Halt with the nuggets of dollars. There you go. Alright. AMS oil is a great place to go. Ams oil dot com, they’ve got motor oil lubricants, hydraulic oil, compressor oil, fuel additives, transmission fluid gear, oil bearing chassis grease filters, steering, antifreeze, cleaners, protected firearm lubricants, I mean on and on and on. AMS oil’s number one in synthetics. And it’s our go-to choice when we want to keep our stuff protected.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 50m 29s):

And a big thanks to Chuck Foreman and his wife Jennifer, for stopping by. If you’re looking for a jack, it’ll take the most severe of abuse. Head over to Pro Eagle dot com and Holman to take us out with a special episode. He

19 (1h 50m 43s):

The avocado. The avocado. The avocado.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 51m 1s):

I do not love that.

Sean P. Holman (1h 51m 3s):

I don’t. And I’ve already checked outta the show. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 51m 6s):

Along with all of our listeners, The Truck. Show Podcast is a production of truck famous LLC. This podcast was created by Sean Holman and Jay Tillis with production elements by DJ Omar Khan. If you like what you’ve heard, please open your Apple Podcast or Spotify app and give us a five star rating. And if you’re a fan, there’s no better way to show your support than by patronizing our sponsors.