Enjoy another great interview with Jeep’s Head of Design, Mark Allen, from Easter Safari in Moab, Utah. The guys discuss the latest news, road trip emergencies, and Holman is looking for help.


The following transcription was generated using a speech recognition software, and will contain errors. Please review the timestamp and listen to the corresponding audio for accuracy. 

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Lightning (0s):

Steven Watson writes to me on Facebook.

Holman (3s):

No he didn’t.

Lightning (4s):

And all he says is the following. You just called him holster and got away with it. I’m

Holman (11s):

Like, I mean, that’s funny. I,

Lightning (13s):

I said, yeah. He says, I dare you to do it again.

Holman (17s):

I’m like,

Lightning (18s):


Holman (19s):

I mean,

Lightning (19s):

Lightning and holster

Holman (20s):

With you. Try it. You can try it.

Lightning (23s):

I just did.

Holman (23s):

Let’s see, what do I have around here? Okay, just keep talking.

Lightning (26s):

No, just keep talking. Let’s move it on. I All. right. So listen, I have, I have a couple stories. I am excited to get to Mark Allen because you do have some Jeep exclusives, I believe, as he sips on his wiener schnitzel giant tanker of a Dr. Pepper.

Holman (39s):

Well that’s ’cause you came hungry and then we had to go. We did. And we haven’t been there in a long time.

Lightning (43s):

I also wanna talk about the 24 Duramax that we just, Dino tested at Banks.

Holman (47s):

Oh. The one that cannot take any aftermarket products at all. Oh.

Lightning (51s):

So you saw that, you saw my post about that. I kind of wanted to read that, read through that real quick. All. right. Do you want me to do it now? Nope. Okay.

Holman (57s):

Well, we’ll do it, we’ll do it later.

Lightning (58s):

And I wanted to talk about my chiropractor. So, well, I’m not a fan of chiropractors, but hold on, hold on. And I know this is not truck related, but,

Holman (1m 6s):

But hold on. Before you get to your chiropractor, that was your issue all day yesterday. So I

Lightning (1m 12s):

Couldn’t walk right yesterday, but on the way I almost went to C V Ss and bought a cane.

Holman (1m 16s):

But on the way home you had another issue.

Lightning (1m 19s):

Oh, you wanting to bring that up? Okay.

Holman (1m 21s):

So it’s funny,

Lightning (1m 22s):

We took a trip and recorded some awesome audio, which I’m excited to get to

Holman (1m 26s):

Next episode.

Lightning (1m 27s):

Yep. Our friends at Schmill Wood sch engineering.

Holman (1m 29s):

No, no, no. that wasn you, you take the first and second syllable letters of the words and you, so it’s willwood, you just, you just reverse ’em.

Lightning (1m 38s):

Well then that’s not, now they know.

Holman (1m 40s):

No, no, no. I reversed the, the first word, the first letter of each syllable. Willwood.

Lightning (1m 46s):

I get that. And yet it’s the same. Now they know just

Holman (1m 48s):

Like here, you’re Tay Jill is, and I’m Han Schulman. We went to Willwood yesterday. You see how it works? Tay Gilis. Yeah. Right. And Han Schulman went to Willwood.

Lightning (2m 1s):

I know. But the problem is Willwood is still Willwood

Holman (2m 4s):

Race car. That’s something different. It’s very different. So All. right. Anyway, it’s like a two and a half hour drive in traffic from there back to here.

Lightning (2m 13s):

It’s an hour with no traffic. And there was all the la traffic that LA could possibly generate.

Holman (2m 18s):

All I can tell you is Lightning was ahead of me. Because we’re going to the same place. Yeah. We’re, you know, we’re, we’re on the same route home. Yeah. Well

Lightning (2m 24s):

First off, we need to back up and say that the Willwood guys were amazing, but

Holman (2m 28s):

Yeah. But we’ll say that the next episode. We’ll,

Lightning (2m 29s):

We’ll, but, so I have to lead in. We ate and we drank right after our Yeah. Our recording session. So I get in the T

Holman (2m 37s):

Rx and followed me on the freeway and followed you. And I was at 75 miles an hour. Cruise control, just chilling. But had adaptive cruise control on And you got tired because somebody in front of me was doing 72 and you couldn’t handle it. So you get around me. Yep. and then you, I’m watching you in the distance and you’re five little l e d lights just do do do and further and further away. and then you’re gone. I go, oh, you must’ve just really gone somewhere.

Lightning (3m 0s):

I did about go somewhere. Yes.

Holman (3m 2s):

And I get a phone call and I’m like, were you home already? You’re like, no, I’m in Santa Monica. And I’m like, that’s way behind me. You’re like, code brown. Yeah. that

Lightning (3m 11s):

Wasn a major code brown. Wow. Dude. Me, God, that wasn awful. So I’m in like Santa Monica, which is not where you wanna stop. Decent town, but like,

Holman (3m 22s):

It just so busy. And it is not,

Lightning (3m 24s):

If you, you gotta go to the bathroom, you’re not gonna get help. No. You’re gonna go to a Denny’s and they’re gonna look at you sideways. If, if you can find a Denny’s. Gas stations do not open up their bathrooms.

Holman (3m 34s):

No, because there’s a crazy homeless population.

Lightning (3m 36s):

There’ll be needle in there. The

Holman (3m 37s):

Druggies and,

Lightning (3m 38s):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. And that wasn insane. So I just, I could, I was sweating. I was reenacting the thing I talked about on the Oz episode. It happened again. So I’m cruising and I get off on Washington. I pull over, I’m like, about to turn right to my left. I see a Chevron. I’m like, there’s no way it’s gonna have a bathroom.

Holman (3m 55s):

Of course not.

Lightning (3m 56s):

Not a chance. ’cause it’s right off the freeway.

Holman (3m 58s):

It’s gonna be super dirty.

Lightning (3m 60s):

Roll down my window. Can I cut across?

Holman (4m 2s):

You did, you did the penguin waddle when you got out.

Lightning (4m 3s):

I first, I, I have to cut across an intersection ’cause I’m in the right lane to turn right. And I did go left. No. So I stopped the traffic and I, and they let me through. Lucky I dart

Holman (4m 10s):

Across. Don’t do that for anyone.

Lightning (4m 12s):

There was a parking spot right in the front. And I walk in and I see a bathroom behind the cashier desk. I’m like, oh, there’s a piece of paper on the door. And I know it, it’s gotta say like, for employees only. It has to because it’s behind the counter. It’s

Holman (4m 23s):

Literally written on that piece of paper. It’s a paper square. It says this is the last piece of toilet paper in the building.

Lightning (4m 29s):

No, it didn’t say that. Okay. So I walk over and it doesn’t say it. I can’t remember what it says, but it has nothing about employees. I’m like, oh, there’s a code. It’s got, it’s got the little keypad on the door. And I turned to the girl behind the counter and I said, 9 1 1. And I go, can I get the code to the door? And she tells me, I pop it open. I walk in no toilet paper. I’m like, oh my God. So I turn over and I, and at

Holman (4m 48s):

This point, the clock is ticking. The hour glass is running outta sand.

Lightning (4m 51s):

I am sweating that wasn. Like I, I was Ted Stryker the pilot in airplane. By the

Holman (4m 56s):

Way, half our listeners didn’t get that reference. Yeah. They

Lightning (4m 58s):

Probably probably didn’t. Funny. So he’s he’s sweating. Yeah. Literally. It’s like someone pouring buckets water. And I, and I asked the girl like, do you have any toilet paper? And she’s like, oh yeah, she takes out a brand new four pack. Peels me out a roll one

Holman (5m 8s):


Lightning (5m 9s):

No. Wow.

Holman (5m 10s):

This place is like, that wasn you, you amazing that wasn angels were singing that wasn

Lightning (5m 14s):


Holman (5m 15s):

God was smiling upon you that moment that

Lightning (5m 17s):

Wasn like,

Holman (5m 19s):

No, it sure wasn’t. I know the sound that was happening. And it wasn’t

Lightning (5m 22s):

No, no. At that moment, that wasn, well, she hands me, the dual bass

Holman (5m 25s):

Came after that.

Lightning (5m 27s):

She hands me the two plight. And I’m like, and that wasn actually charman that wasn. Like what? And, and I and

Holman (5m 32s):

You were so just,

Lightning (5m 33s):

I I closed

Holman (5m 33s):

The colon blow was so amazing. You took the entire roll and you just used the entire roll to sop it up with one fell swoop.

Lightning (5m 41s):

I closed the door and I turned towards the toilet. Expecting to see this, the previous person that just spackled the walls. Nope. Nope. And it didn’t that wasn clean. Alright. The place was clean and I, I, it, it, well I contained the, the aft. There was no aftermath like that. Like that wasn just,

Holman (5m 57s):

Okay, this is going too far. Where we were, we, we got to a line. I think we’re over it now. Yeah. Okay. All right. Do it. So I’m gonna bring

Lightning (6m 2s):

You back. So now can we

Holman (6m 3s):

Agree on one thing?

Lightning (6m 4s):

So, so that wasn successful.

Holman (6m 6s):

God, I’m happy for

Lightning (6m 7s):

You. I, I leave the restroom, leave the restroom, and I open my wallet. I grab a 10 and I put it on the counter. I go, this is for you. You just saved a man’s life. You’re

Holman (6m 18s):

A cheap ass. You think your life is only worth $10. I would’ve given her her a honey.

Lightning (6m 22s):

I mean, she’s, you

Holman (6m 23s):

Know what’s funny? If she would’ve known if in that moment you asked for the code, she said, Benjamin, I would’ve given her, you would’ve done it.

Lightning (6m 29s):


Holman (6m 30s):

So after the fact, you, you are, are such a, a shameful unappreciative bastard. So you short her $90. I

Lightning (6m 38s):

I don’t think she knew she was gonna get a hundred bucks. I did feel, when I got in the truck and, and drove away, I go, I should’ve left her 20. Yeah. I absolutely, I I felt bad.

Holman (6m 46s):

Bad or five of them.

Lightning (6m 48s):


Holman (6m 48s):

I mean, how bad do you wanna feel? But I felt great. It’s the balance of, of the guy that’s cleaning your truck and explaining to him what he’s gonna have to detail out. Listen, can we agree on one thing? What’s that warm toilet seat equals busy day at the truck stop.

Lightning (7m 3s):

Yes. Road trip advice right there. This was ice cold. So I was stoked. Wow. There was nobody in there. You’re so lucky. that wasn that wasn. Seriously. I drove away had, that’s why I called you because I’m like, I just got, so I just won the lottery.

Holman (7m 15s):

You had zen, you had poop zen. Yeah, I did. Dude, that’s hashtag poop zen. That’s a new T-shirt. Hashtag. hold on. I’m writing that down. Poop zen. Yeah, it should be. What should the graphic be? Like a pilot truck stop with like the bathroom door open or something like that. The

Lightning (7m 34s):

Stall open.

Holman (7m 34s):

Yeah. Huh. Comes then.

Lightning (7m 36s):

I’m just telling you man. I was so I guarantee you it could have been so bad if I had walked it just like employee our listeners. And I was ready. I had all my money out. I had like 60 bucks in my wallet. All

Holman (7m 46s):

Of our listeners have traveled cross country and have had that moment. Yeah.

Lightning (7m 48s):

Have you ever had to like, tip someone behind the counter to use their employee bathroom or like, tell us your poop zen story please. Hashtag poop zen. I don’t

Holman (7m 58s):

Send it to the, the the five star hotline. 6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5. Great idea. We wanna know when you didn’t make it or, or when you barely made it. I,

Lightning (8m 9s):

I don’t, I

Holman (8m 10s):

Don’t do we? No, I don’t. No, no, no. What we, let’s not guide. We’re not gonna guide what we’re looking for. Just 6 5 7 2 5 61 0 5 6 5.

Lightning (8m 17s):

Yes. Right. Definitely wanna hear your story. All right? It is The Truck. Show Podcast. It’s episode number 775. That’s

Holman (8m 23s):

Not true. Episode 16. Okay. Of

Lightning (8m 25s):

Season two. Of season

Holman (8m 26s):


Lightning (8m 27s):

For those new listeners we had season one and it’s gonna a lot

Holman (8m 29s):

Of, a lot

Lightning (8m 30s):


Holman (8m 30s):

Don’t worry about season one. Yeah. It doesn’t matter anymore. Well,

Lightning (8m 32s):

Those were good episodes. Don’t blow

Holman (8m 34s):

It off now. I’ll go. No,

Lightning (8m 34s):

It’s not like it’s bad,

Holman (8m 35s):

Bad. I don’t remember any of it. The only thing that counts is going forward

Lightning (8m 38s):

Just because MotorTrend owned season one.

Holman (8m 40s):

Don’t, don’t look into the rear view man. Just, just move forward. All right. Move forward in life. You know what I was moving forward in today. Nissan Titan xd. Oh,

Lightning (8m 49s):

Were you

Holman (8m 49s):

Really? Yeah. So I drove that thing to Vegas. So gas xd Dude, I got 17 miles per gallon in that thing.

Lightning (8m 56s):

Dang. I think it’s a beast. It’s a big truck for 17 miles a gallon.

Holman (8m 59s):

Oh yeah. I mean it weighs what, 6,500 pounds or 6,700 pounds. Something like that. And

Lightning (9m 3s):

You drove up to Camarillo

Holman (9m 5s):

And then I drove to meet you at Willwood. Yep. The company that we’re not mentioning we’re Schmill

Lightning (9m 11s):

Engineering. That’s right.

Holman (9m 12s):

We’re we’re transposing the Ws. This is my wife’s idea. I was coming home from Vegas and the event that I, that I was at said, Hey, we will get you another hotel night if you want. And I was like, no, no, I’m just gonna drive home. and then my wife says, so you are working all day. They’ve offered you a hotel room, you’ve said no. So you’re gonna drive all the way home from Vegas, get home late just so you can wake up early, drive all the way to Camarillo and then drive back home. And I went, that’s idiotic. That sounds stupid, right? She goes, why don’t you just take the hotel room and drive straight to Camarillo from, from Vegas? And I went, oh. So that’s what I did. And my God, is that a long drive? I feel like where we live in Southern California, Vegas is pretty much a straight shot for the most part.

Holman (9m 53s):

It’s, it’s four hours. I feel like when you live on the west side of La, Vegas is like four states away, maybe six. ’cause you gotta go like through all of LA and then you gotta go up the mountain and then all that. It’s like, man, this is a, that’s a lot of work. So

Lightning (10m 8s):

Having put all these miles on the Titan, give me a review.

Holman (10m 14s):

It is super quiet. It is super quiet. That truck is such a nice just road trip, open road adaptive cruise control. Set it, zero gravity seats, put on the seat heater. And

Lightning (10m 26s):

This is the Platinum Reserve, right? Yep.

Holman (10m 28s):

This is the platinum reserve and just motor.

Lightning (10m 30s):

It’s got the moonroof. And did you open it

Holman (10m 32s):

All way? It’s the panel. No you

Lightning (10m 33s):

Didn’t. No. You’re not a moonroof guy, are you? Not really. I

Holman (10m 36s):

Love ’em. No, I just have everything all. I just like to be all dark and cozy in my car. And

Lightning (10m 40s):

There’s sometimes I like that. But yeah man, what it’s, it’s right now the weather’s gorgeous out. You open it up and you can see the sun.

Holman (10m 45s):

The sun hurts my skin now. I’m old. It’s great. I mean it’s got UV blocking and stuff, but I just don’t want to sit in the sun like that. So

Lightning (10m 53s):

What about the, when you have a beautiful starry night and you’re going through the desert

Holman (10m 56s):

You know what I’d rather do is like, when it’s like down pouring, then I like opening it up. ’cause it’s like, ah, I’m looking at the inside of a rain cloud. Ah, you can’t get me. So then I’m, that works. Okay. But dude, it, it, it, it just, a smooth truck drives nice. It’s super comfortable. I was super happy with fuel economy for that big old 5.6 liter V eight and a big old truck. But yeah, that wasn great. And listen, five year, a hundred thousand mile warranty on this truck. So Nissan supports the show. Hopefully you guys will support Nissan in return. You guys can head to Nissan usa.com. You can experience the Nissan Titan XD Platinum Reserve like I have. And if you wanna go down to your local dealer, they might even show you the Sean Holman special.

Lightning (11m 35s):

And what does that include?

Holman (11m 37s):

Usually questions about who Sean Holman is.

Lightning (11m 39s):

Yeah. But before you get into that Nissan Titan, if you’re stuck with your old seven three, your six, oh your six two, your six five, any of those trucks and you want some more power, reach out to Banks Power or Banks

Holman (11m 53s):

Power.com. Believe it or not, Banks still offers power pack systems for all of those trucks. So if I were to go get myself like a first Gen seven three, do you have a setup for that? I absolute, well, me Banks does. I don’t. Banks does All. right? All. right Banks. How about if I got a first generation super duty with a 6.8 liter V 10? Yep. Got that. Got headers. Got intake exhaust. How about a, we even have tuning. What if I have the world’s slowest suburban 2,500 with a non turbo 6.2. Well you’re in luck my friend. There’s a turbo setup for you. And what? And inner cooling, bro.

Holman (12m 33s):

So what does that add? Like eight horsepower or something So you don’t blow it up. It’s over a hundred horsepower. Wow, that’s that’s a lot. Yeah, it’s a lot on that engine. All, right? All right. How about if I have a first generation 12 valve Ram Cummins five nine. And it has a VE pump intake exhaust and Twin Ram manifold. Huh? I got you. All right. All right. I like it. Find your gear at Banks power.com. And if you’ve got a vehicle that suffers from poured ride quality blown shocks or just a overall lack of precision, you mean like a six five or a six oh or Yeah. Anything 20 years old or older.

Holman (13m 15s):

Sometimes anything a year or, or older. So first you call Banks and then you follow it up with a call to Bilstein because you are gonna need some shocks. That’s right. Whether you’ve got a tow rig or a daily driver or a trail rig. Bilstein has you covered when the road runs out, bill Bilstein shocks will keep you going. You can get the ride height adjustable B 8 51 hundreds to the dual tube external bypass B 8 81 hundreds. There’s a wide range of direct fit options that’ll give you more time on the trail and less time in the garage. And it’s not just Offroad rigs, it’s towing rigs. And your daily commute can be more enjoyable with Bill Bilstein shocks. They offer comfort, durability, and guess what? They don’t compromise on control either. Bill Stein’s are the originator of the Monotube shock. A lot of technology.

Holman (13m 55s):

Great warranty. If you wanna find out more, head over to bill Bilstein us.com. We run Bill Bilstein on our vehicles and we suggest you do it too.

2 (14m 2s):

The Truck Shock Show. We’re gonna show you what we know. We’re gonna answer What? The truck, because truck rides with the truck show. We have the lifted, we have the lowered end. Everything in between. We’ll talk about trucks that run on Diesel and the ones that run on gasoline. The truck show. The truck show. The truck show. Whoa.

3 (14m 34s):

It’s the truck show with your hosts Lightning and Holman. That’s

2 (14m 39s):

Us. Alright. What

Holman (14m 41s):

Is first Mr. Holster? Holster is not my name, but that’s funny. Ish show. Do you wanna see what’s in my holster pal? Nope. don don’t. I like how you looked immediately to my hip to see if I was wearing a alter because

Lightning (14m 55s):

There was a time that you took the piece out and set it up on the bench here. And I was like, that’s making me uncomfortable.

Holman (15m 3s):

All. right. We’ve got a great interview. I went out to Easter, Jeep Safari and had a chance to catch up with my good friend Mark Allen, who’s the head of design for Jeep. And that wasn just him and I Lightning gives me a whole bunch of crap because every time I interview him it’s outside where there’s it’s crazy wind. So this time we did it in a hotel room. Oh, that’s great. And so this is gonna be 10 times better than the audio you got. Possibly. By

Lightning (15m 26s):

The way, I want to a, give you kudos for getting the interview, but B, celebrate the fact that we have Mark Allen on the show. We have the head of design of

Holman (15m 38s):

Jeep of a major car company

Lightning (15m 41s):

And this is not the first time we’ve had one of these. No, I’m pretty stoked. Like if you look at our history over the, again, 699 episodes, half a decade, whatever. Right? That

Holman (15m 50s):

Sounds like a lot. Right? Half a decade. My

Lightning (15m 51s):

God. We have been doing this for half a decade.

Holman (15m 52s):

Over half a decade. This is year six. It’s true.

Lightning (15m 55s):

I just think it’s pretty cool. All the people that we’ve interviewed, the, the, the key players in the industry.

Holman (15m 59s):

Well, not only that, we’ve interviewed a dude who made widgets in his garage, another dude who has a truck show, another guy who is a, a mid-level something or whatever, saying

Lightning (16m 8s):

We don’t pat ourselves on the back very often, but looking back at the last five years, pretty decent we’ve had. But here’s what I’m saying, A really good list of

Holman (16m 15s):

Folks. What I’m saying is we don’t just focus on these big fish, we focus on little guys too. Anybody has an interesting story. We try and bring it to you guys. I think that’s cool, right? Because. We’re not just like, I agree. Oh look, we’re only bringing a list celebrities and no, we’re bringing regular everyday Joes. And it turns out some of these executives are regular everyday Joes. It’s pretty cool All. right? So so

Lightning (16m 34s):

Let’s get into an regular everyday Joe.

Holman (16m 35s):

Yeah. Named Mark. Allen. All. right? Lightning. So here I am with, well I’m gonna say my good friend Mark Allen. And you’re gonna say, you say everybody’s your good friend. And I’m like, no. Mark. Allen and I are actually good friends. We’ve known each other for a very long time and whether he likes it or not, he’s stuck with me. So this is our,

Lightning (16m 53s):

Knowing each other does not make you good friends.

Holman (16m 56s):

We talk on a regular basis. How about that? Does that make us good friends? How regular? Every few weeks, if not once a month. Okay. Alright. Phone calls, texts. I, I’ll, I’ll,

Lightning (17m 6s):

I’ll give you a friendship.

Holman (17m 7s):

Well we’ve, we’ve gone out to dinner together. Have you, we’ve been on trips together. Have

Lightning (17m 12s):

You stayed in the same room together? We’ve

Holman (17m 14s):

Wheeled together. No, but I haven’t stayed in the same room with you.

Lightning (17m 19s):

That’s true. You’re

Holman (17m 20s):

Lucky. I’ve come close a few times, but I was able to avoid it. Annual conversation about the concepts at Easter Safari here in Moab Utah. And for the first time in the past three years, we’re gonna do it indoors and so that you can actually hear the interview, which that was lightning’s request. You said, for the love of God, can you not do it in the wind. So appreciate Mark giving us a, a nice quiet spot where we could, we could catch up. So what’s this week? I mean, a lot of excitement here. We spent a couple hours on the, the trail yesterday together in some of the older concepts. Yep. This was the first time in three years. I haven’t driven pork chop. So I love pork chop because it’s manual. But I, I got to drive Stitch, which is one of your favorites.

Mark Allen (18m 1s):

It Yeah, no, it is my defacto favorite. Yeah.

Holman (18m 4s):

The thing is awesome. Yeah.

Mark Allen (18m 6s):

I do a few different things while we’re in town.

Holman (18m 9s):

Now you called it Stitch. Stitch is the name of a concept. He did. Okay. So this year they took all these lightweight concepts he’s done over the years. So one was lower 40, which was a jk, two-door on 40 inch tires and no lift. One of ’em was pork Chop, which he was inspired after driving a JK that I had built through the magazine that weighed like 2000 pounds more than stock. That was a giant po pig. So next year he came out and he basically took pork chop that wasn a two-door jk and it I think it has an aluminum body and it has like a bunch of, you know, weight taken off of an holes drill. And that wasn, it basically, it weighs so little. It’s it’s under 5,000 pounds.

Holman (18m 49s):

It might be like 4,500 pounds or something. They took don don’t know, we, we might even talk about it, but a stock height lift was like two and a half inches or something. Okay. I mean something ridiculous ’cause there’s no weight on it. Just raises it up on Stock Springs with 30 fives. And there’s been a number of those four speed, which is a 2.0 liter turbo, four banger that’s been tuned up that also had the lightweight treatment. So every year they bring older concepts and Jim Morrison has a ride with a few chosen media and Jeep executives. And it’s basically a invite only a small group of make maybe eight vehicles. And we all go out and every year they bring different stuff of that’s been there in the past.

Holman (19m 30s):

And so when they bring those older concept vehicles back, do they modify them? Are they updated Or is it No, they don’t, they exactly how they were when they were billed at the Moab that they debuted. Okay. But the thing about the stuff Mark does is everything is done to be used. So there’s no like, oh man, it just a show car. No, all of it works. And we’re going on gnarly trails. We’re lockers in four low. And it’s funny, you’re passing mountain bikers and other Jeepers and they’re like, whoa, look at like, all these Jeep concepts are like actually out on the trails is really now when they get dinged up, do they leave the dings or do they bring you back to Jeep and Nah, they leave them. They repaint ’em. No. Oh they do. No, they’re, they’re exactly whatever happens to ’em. That’s, that’s what happens to ’em. Huh.

Mark Allen (20m 6s):

The highlight is the, the concepts that we build every year. Lots of passion and effort go into those by a very small group and, and you know, it’s hard to build a car and forgive my language ’cause in my business everything is gone. Yes. I always get beat up. Like Jeep, they’re Jeeps. So it’s, it’s hard to build one, a special one-off, but we’re building five all at the same time.

Holman (20m 30s):

I I don know on

Mark Allen (20m 31s):

The same timeline. So, we’ve

Holman (20m 32s):

Joked about this before where, and if people look at the concepts, there’s, there’s hints and nods to things. Well why do they do it? They never build those. Well it’s not about the concepts. Yeah. It’s, it’s the, the, the nod to the future, the, the nod to the past, a hint at what might be coming. There’s things like the 20th anniversary grill that was just unveiled, that showed up on Easter Jeep’s concepts last year. And there

Mark Allen (20m 57s):

There’s the wrangler and it has, the wrangler has a ton of learnings in it from here. The, the way the wheels are open, the Wheel wells are opened up. You could put 35 on now or you can small And

Holman (21m 8s):

That was directly from Moac.

Mark Allen (21m 9s):

Yeah. Steel bumpers. The bumpers that you can change the width of the, the ability to put a winch on it right away. On and on and

Holman (21m 18s):

On. Air compressor in the tailgate. Yeah. That’s on the anniversary edition, right? Yep. That started as one of your concept vehicles that wasn it last year a couple years ago. Playing with that for a little while helps

Mark Allen (21m 28s):

Us defend things like the way that the roof opens, say the power, the power top, the half doors, putting those in the, you know, big business like this. They would love to get rid of parts and pieces and half doors was something that came to that. A rock rail that could hold the weight of the vehicle.

Holman (21m 46s):

Gladiator rear rock rail behind. Yes. The rear Wheel Yes. Is something that came out here because doesn’t it hold something like 1.5 times gross vehicle weight rating for the corner, something like that.

Mark Allen (21m 57s):

Recovery hooks, all that stuff. Having four, you know, on and on on. Okay.

Holman (22m 1s):

So you’ll be, you’ll be

Mark Allen (22m 2s):

Proud of me. I had somebody ask me once direct very directly like what is that rock rail for that didn’t understand

Holman (22m 8s):

What that wasn

Mark Allen (22m 9s):

Oh boy boy. And me being kinda smart, like, I’m like well that’s for steering.

Holman (22m 13s):

Yeah it is. If

Mark Allen (22m 14s):

They didn’t understand, if you pivot it’s there. Absolutely.

Holman (22m 17s):

So you’ll be proud of me because I used a tow hook today to pull a sprinter van out of deep sand with my 3 92. Oh and then that

Mark Allen (22m 24s):

Wasn over landing.

Holman (22m 25s):

He got into a place you shouldn’t have been. Yeah. And I just threw it in low range. Yeah. I couldn’t believe how effortless it like didn’t even care. There was that wasn a high roof long Wheel based sprinter. Yeah. In deep sand in a wash. Wow. And he wasn’t even helping me reverse. I just drug him like a hundred feet back to safety and everybody’s like,

Mark Allen (22m 41s):

It’d be a 10,000 pound vehicle.

Holman (22m 43s):

Right. It’s something like that. Yeah. It wasn’t empty. Right. So it that the tow goes to the, the tow points being, you know, sturdy enough and you’ll appreciate it. I’ve joined the Legion of 3 92 owners who actually take their three 90 twos off road and bash detail pipes today.

Mark Allen (22m 59s):

Saw that. Yeah. Nice post. Yeah.

Holman (23m 1s):


Mark Allen (23m 3s):

Wait, did they find out How much? Those tips are

Holman (23m 5s):

So I’ve had a couple people comment on my post telling me that I’m like, I have, I have friends places. I’m sure I can figure out.

Mark Allen (23m 12s):

Fun fact that that.

Holman (23m 14s):

Now why did he not, because you guys are so tight. Why did he not offer Dish the sin set? Because he’s not Mopar, he’s not the parts department guy. He’s got juice. He makes, he makes the cars pretty. Dude if anyone has juice because he thought that wasn funny. It’s Mark. Just like if you asked me to fix something that you broke on your truck and then I laughed at you and then walked away and then made me buy it anyway. Maybe. Mm.

Mark Allen (23m 36s):

Muffler is from an Romeo.

Holman (23m 37s):

Is it really? Yes, it’s Is that why it’s so square? I mean it sounds amazing. Yeah. It’s gotta be one of the best sounding factors

Mark Allen (23m 43s):

Off that wasn because it has the valves in it and stuff, but yeah.

Holman (23m 46s):

Did he just say what I think he said? Yeah, the muffler on he it’s from an Alpha Romeo. Yeah. The muffler Muffler run a 3 92 is from an Alpha Romeo. Huh. Part’s been at at its best that I never find something, find something in the C corporate world that fits and put it in there but a V eight Alpha Romeo or like, I wonder what the application was. I don know. Any idea I don know. Huh? I’ve never heard Anal Alpha Rome Mayo sound like you’re 3 92. No.

Mark Allen (24m 12s):

That wasn a fast grab. You know we built that vehicle in a really short amount of time. Yeah, yeah. And thank goodness we did.

Holman (24m 20s):

And I know you can’t comment on it, but I’m gonna tell everybody if you haven’t bought one yet, it’s gonna be very too late. It’s very soon.

Mark Allen (24m 27s):

Yes. I just bought mine. Yeah. That I’m keeping. Yeah.

Holman (24m 32s):

And the 20 fours came out with the big screen and all that announced that New York What Lightning Can we let the man talk? hold on a second. But you’re saying all these tidbits that they’re interesting. You just said that they’re not gonna have the 3 9 2 for very long. Is that a known thing? Yes. This is the last year buy one now it’s probably sold out. It’s probably too late buy done chow. This is because they couldn’t meet emissions anymore. This is because they’re not making that engine anymore. Wow. Yeah, good point. I mean this is the last vehicle once the, this is the last last edition on Chargers and challengers. And what is the T R X out? Is it? Is it 24? I would say that’s probably a good guess. Not the truck, just the engine. Right.

Holman (25m 12s):

There’s a lot of really cool updates for those coming. But yeah, if you didn’t order 3 92 this, we’ve been telling you guys on the podcast, get your T R X, get your 3 82, get your hell cast your challengers chargers.

Mark Allen (25m 25s):

That’s it. Window is closing. Yeah.

Holman (25m 27s):

Last call literally. Yeah, yeah,

Mark Allen (25m 29s):

Exactly. Yeah. We’re we’re there All right? Turning the lights on at the bar. Yeah. Right.

Holman (25m 33s):

So Yeah, semi sonics closing time is playing in the background of the, of the speakers. So I, I belong to a, a social club with has guns and cigars and I figured out, I probably shouldn’t tell the story, I’m do it anyway. I figured out that I can access their Sonos.

Mark Allen (25m 49s):

Oh really?

Holman (25m 50s):

And so when I’m there with maybe a regular group and just a couple people working at the end of the day, I might have played Semisonic one too many times. Hack

Mark Allen (25m 59s):

Into it. Yeah.

Holman (25m 59s):

Yeah. And so the bar manager, he, he gets very upset and then he’ll just like if it’s, you know, if it closes at, you know, at midnight like 1201 we’re playing closing time and he’s out, you know, cleaning up and he’ll damn it. Sean Sean. Or he’ll just turn it off and go, you guys can’t have any more music now. So obviously Moab huge for the Jeep brand. This is my, I think 18th year coming out. I’ve spent time with executives in the past, the engineering team who brings people out, especially new engineers who haven’t really been off-roading before to introduce them to Jeep. You bring designers out for the same thing. We go on concept trail drives. You have the cons, the concepts, which I’m amazed you

Mark Allen (26m 36s):

Lemme talk about the designer’s for a minute. Yeah. I have

Holman (26m 39s):

In bubbles.

Mark Allen (26m 40s):

In bubbles, yes. So what we do, if you don’t know, is I bring people out that are somehow their finger touches development of a Jeep in my studio. If they’re designers, none of them have any Offroad experience and haven’t ever been to to Moab. They’re usually car guys. Yep. And that’s fine. But I convince my boss to let me bring them out and show them the community, show them the passion and teach them how to drive Offroad. Which is awesome because they don’t have any bad habits yet. Yeah. In fact I do a little hand raised session up front like who’s ever been on road and the guy that raises his hand, I said, I’m gonna have trouble with you.

Mark Allen (27m 20s):

Yeah. Because you’ve got some bad habits. And this, this group I have this year, I’ve got five guys that have never ever, ever been Offroad

Holman (27m 28s):

Before. Really?

Mark Allen (27m 29s):

Wow. And to come out to Moab for their first Offroad experience. I think it iss pretty cool. We have a selection of vehicles for them to drive and there’s a funny story coming up here, but I am after them all the time to, I don’t care. I tell them, I said, you know, all the vehicles have 30 fives on, they’re rubicons, they’re, you know, they’re great. Like you, you don’t need all this stuff and that car is better than you right now. It has the capability and they’re amazed at what they do. But I’m always after them to drive as clean as possible. Finesse on the throttle, finesse on the brake steering, you know,

Holman (28m 6s):

Well it’s easy to have, you know, we were talking about it on yesterday.

Mark Allen (28m 9s):

They think they gotta pull up something and Matt, right. Because that’s what they, well

Holman (28m 12s):

And they watch people who have forties and we talked about this yesterday when we were wheeling on the trail together. Those big tires have ruined a lot of the trails here. They’ve dug out big holes and even on 30 sevens, it’s really tough in places because of the big tires. And you know, like me, you appreciate finesse. I like to pick my way through a line and I like technical driving and it’s so much harder when there’s a giant hole augered out by a a 40. So you’re getting to it there. But I, I want to talk to all of the folks that are listening who haven’t been Offroad. ’cause a lot of our audience hasn’t. What do those 30 sevens, 30 eights forties do to that trail that prevents that 32, 33, 34, 35.

Holman (28m 52s):

They just dig out big holes. And so in front of like a waterfall obstacle where you used to be able to get a tire on and crawl up and over it. Now you can’t even get your bumper or your wheels up to, without hitting your bumper because the hole is so dug out. Or on some of the bigger tires, if there’s, if there’s a shelf, they’ll dig out under the shelf. So now there’s the, what used to be a ramp to get up is now an overhang. So now you have to get your tire. Well a 40 is dug out a perfectly 40 inch tall overhang. So guess what, when you’re 37 comes up to it, it can’t get on top of the lip. Gotcha. Because it’s stuck under the lip. So now you have to crawl over the lip to get onto the ramp. So all of these big shelf roads, things like top of the world or Cane Creek or Poison Spider Mesa or you know, anything that, that has shelf elements to it.

Holman (29m 41s):

Even things that were hard before, harder like a high dive on Pritchet or behind the rocks or things.

Lightning (29m 47s):

Well how do you get up and over it now? Because if you’re, you have a 30 A 33 and there was a 35 take

Holman (29m 54s):

Dug it, you take, you take the bypass. Oh

Lightning (29m 56s):

Is that you just literally can’t get up If

Holman (29m 57s):

There’s a bypass, there’s places you can’t get up. I mean the, the thing is you’ll see something on forties will get up to it and, and they’ll kind of go over, you may have to get to it at an angle. So this is where Jeeps are way better than just about anything else. A a Bronco isn’t gonna be able to have the same approach angle as a Jeep with I f s, the reason a Jeep is so good at crawling is that front axle is moved in front of the oil pan. So the front axle literally lives under like the front accessory drive of the engine. It’s so far forward that above the front axle is, you know, the front of the frame and like the cooling stack in the front of the engine. Whereas on an I F Ss, all that stuff is set far back. You don’t have all that Wheel clearance. That’s why Wheel, you’re just, you

Lightning (30m 34s):

Just can’t get the articulation. Yeah, no,

Holman (30m 36s):

Not the articulation, the approach angle. So with a Jeep it’s all opened up. I can turn left all the way or right all the way on the Jeep and expose my entire tire. So if I come up to an obstacle, I may not be able to square up with it. But if I come at it at a 45 degree angle and then cut hard driver’s side, I can get that front tire to get up and over and with a locker, pop the whole thing up and then straighten out as I climb up and with front rear lockers, then I can go. But again, it’s picking your line and it’s a lot more challenging than it used to be because you’re constantly going in through these giant dugout holes and things that didn’t used to be there. And I mean it’s like you look at my Jeep, it looks pretty big in the city. You’re like, oh wow, that thing’s got 30 sevens on it. You get out to Moab, I’m like on a small tire. Jeep

Lightning (31m 15s):

Other fifties out there,

Holman (31m 17s):

30? No. Although there were 50 fours on a couple rigs. But the reality is most people now thir 33 used to be the standard then 35 is the standard and 37, I’d say most Jeeps now are probably on 30 fives or 30 sevens. and then a lot of the built stuff is 30 eights forties and 40 twos. So the tire size has definitely evolved.

Lightning (31m 39s):

Let me ask you, the the old school guys that have been going out to Moab and these spots all around the country for decades, are any of them so old school that they’re sticking with the 30 threes? Oh absolutely. Well, and and and as a consequence they’re pissed off because they can’t get over these waterfalls and

Holman (31m 55s):

Such or or they’re like me and they actually like to drive and not just drive over stuff. So it’s all about picking lines, doing slow technical driving. A lot of guys today, in my opinion, the funds have been taken out of off-roading because the forties and 40 twos are so giant. You just, it’s point and shoot. You just go, oh I’m gonna go that way. and then you just crawl over everything. You get to the top. Well what’s the fun in that? Part of the fun of rock crawling and picking a line through the trail is reading the terrain and getting your small tire vehicle up and over, stuff like that. Me too. Or

Mark Allen (32m 22s):

Something like that. But also I like the struggle. Yeah. You know, it’s, it’s fine. So, we quick sidebar, we’re up on hel revenge and, and kind of a third of the way in, there’s a few steps you gotta get over and you kinda can kind of pick the harder ones. And I was impressed this group of guys got it. They’re really going through and, and we picked the hardest line and got them all through and then they were all kind of puffing their chest up and showing and all the Flad fender guys came through and just, just neatly

Holman (32m 54s):


Mark Allen (32m 55s):

The same hard thing they did with 30 fives and lockers and all that stuff like

Holman (32m 59s):

We do with NDTs. and then

Mark Allen (33m 1s):

Well yeah, maybe figure out like what’s going on here and you know, to be, to be, to be fair, Moab is pretty unique. You’re driving an 80 grid sandpaper. Yeah. Yeah. You can, you can stand on the side of a rock really, really easy. But no matter they have a, I always get them to, to, my goal is to get them to say woo-hoo. And, and they always do. I I’ve converted a few people, but that’s a fun thing to do. Especially they, they, it changes them. They come back and they understand better Yeah. Why we’re doing what we’re doing and, and how we configure

Holman (33m 35s):

The and why the shape is the way the shape is and what has to work off road and what pieces interface that

Mark Allen (33m 39s):

Sight lines are important. Yeah. The way that I, I would make them take the car apart, you know, the doors or the roof and all that stuff and make them put it back together. I make them clean the cars Oh yeah. Afterwards.

Holman (33m 52s):

Yeah. But that has nothing to do with design and everything to do with free labor.

Mark Allen (33m 55s):


Holman (33m 56s):


Mark Allen (33m 57s):

No. But it, it does, it gets up to understand. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve brought vehicles in the studio before and had guys just like take, take the roof down off You know what the jail, the roof is now. Really pretty simple to do. Yeah. If you’ve ever had a a yj that wasn like assembling a tent

Holman (34m 13s):

That wasn awful. A really poorly tent.

Mark Allen (34m 16s):

We’ve always, we’ve we’ve gone forward with, with soft tops and they’re still, they’re still

Holman (34m 19s):

Good. Do they understand that little rock pebbles get between my fenders and the body and stick there forever?

Mark Allen (34m 25s):

Yeah. I I’m probably the guy that took blame for the,

Holman (34m 29s):

That wasn that your, that wasn. Thank you for the tall fenders. But you know, thank you for leaving my rock catch. No,

Mark Allen (34m 34s):

I gotta pick ’em outta of mine as well. so Yeah

Holman (34m 37s):

All. right. Well what else can we play you for?

Mark Allen (34m 38s):

Take a bullet. Pretty much everything that says that says Jeep on it. Yeah. I got thick skin. Not worried about it.

Holman (34m 44s):

So, you know, the, the way the fenders are on the Jeep, what ends up happening is the, where the fenders and the the fenders meet the metal fender and the plastic one like the overhang on the wheels. Right. There’s a little v notch there and all the pebbles stick in there. And so it’s like Mark designed it where they have what used to be called a high clearance fender is now standard on a Rubicon to allow more tires. But that little v notch is there. And so after every Offroad trip you have to go and take a little pick and pull out every little, so I wonder Pebble from there wonder they can do anything about that. Like put a gasket in there or people take just rubber gaskets off of Amazon and shove it down in there. But that’s why I was gonna mark a hard time about that. ’cause every Jeep owner from the the JL knows what that’s like.

Holman (35m 26s):

’cause you’re like, oh man, I got all these rock shove between my fingers. They’ve gotta figure out a way to put, include a gasket in those things. You would think they will. It’s Mark’s fault. I am, I was visiting Detroit and we went out to lunch. So I came to your office and you had showed me a, a Jeep that was coming out that I wasn’t maybe lukewarm. And we were in your office and you said, I wanna show you something and I want your honest feedback. And my comment was, can I tell you later because I wanna, I need to absorb it. Yeah. Like I, I always love car design and I’ve learned a lot from you over the years and the thing that I, I just, you know, the designs that look really fresh right away have tend to be the ones that don’t age well and the ones that you have to sit and kind of ponder for a little bit and walk around and you pick up little things or there’s nuance to it.

Holman (36m 17s):

Or you have to see a lot of designs outside before they really come alive in the sunlight. Those are the ones that I appreciate. ’cause they seem like they la they they pass the,

Lightning (36m 26s):

Isn’t that weird when you’re describing the way that the cars that don’t jump right out at you at first, those stand the test of time. It’s like you were describing a song like I never liked Pearl Jam. I I think a lot of you guys love Pearl Jam out there, but I couldn’t stand Pearl Jam because to me that wasn just, it took 20 listens. Right. But for the same reason that that like daughter Yeah. Right. Or even flow took 20 listens then all those songs have stood the test of time.

Holman (36m 55s):

I can think of a bunch of vehicles that I didn’t like when I first saw them. and then over time I’m like man, that still looks good. You know, or wasn’t a huge fan of and yeah, I mean it’s, it’s hard when you work for a brand that literally the test of time is, is sort of like if you go buy a Camaro today, that’s a retro vehicle because there was broken lineage there you go and buy a Volkswagen Beetle that is, you know, a new beetle that is a retro vehicle because there’s broken lineage there.

Lightning (37m 25s):

And by broken lineage you mean they stop from they they

Holman (37m 28s):

Stop producing. Right? You look at an F one 50 or you look at a, you know, a Silverado that’s a direct descendant of the original. You look at a Jeep that’s a direct descendant of an original The Bronco. No the Bronco is a retro vehicle. And so there’s a certain difference when you’re trying to recapture a feel in the modern age versus an evolution. Right. An evolution of something that was never broken. And you can see a Jeep today and you know, immediately it’s a Jeep. There’s nothing else on the road that looks like it. It is what it is. And, and to, to give the to in my opinion, like guys like Mark, he’s got one of the hardest jobs in the world. ’cause how do you keep a Jeep looking fresh but also keep it timeless to where it still looks like a Jeep in 20 years and it doesn’t look like, oh those are the ones that you don’t want.

Holman (38m 15s):

That’s a really hard job.

Lightning (38m 17s):

It’s very bmw ss, if you looked at all the three series, you they have that evolution.

Holman (38m 22s):

Well until the recent ones, God, those are ugly.

Lightning (38m 25s):

Ah, they still look like a three series.

Holman (38m 27s):

Ah, some of the new BMWs are horrible.

Lightning (38m 29s):

Yeah. They look more Japanese and they

Holman (38m 30s):

Got rid of, they got rid of the dog legs in the back, you know, in the C pillar, which is like classic B m w forever. I’m like, once you get rid of the dog, the dog leg on the sea pillar and you make the grill just a gaudy like horrible looking. It’s like you’ve jumped the shark. I hope that Jeep never jumps the shark the way b m w has.

Mark Allen (38m 49s):

You’d like to think that you get the full freedom. You could just sit down, draw whatever you want and make it Yeah. And, and go to lunch. But you’re given a lot of obstacles in the way, there’s a lot of politics, timelines, et cetera. There’s a lot of opportunities to get it wrong. Sometimes we do, it’s fine. But,

Holman (39m 10s):

Okay. So before we get to the concepts, one burning question that I’ve had probably the most comments out of in the last couple weeks since that wasn announced That I would love to have you on the record and just say what was the decision, and we may have talked about this a little bit last year, but the decision or the process on redesigning the Wrangler JL Grill, which shows up on the 20th anniversary Rubicon and is the Grill for the 20 fours. And don don’t know that it’s controversial, but it, it seems to have inspired a lot of conversation people. People love it or they hate it or some people say they see Renegade don don’t necessarily see Renegade. Some people like that.

Holman (39m 50s):

It’s a little squattier, but just kind of curious as a designer, how do you take that classic Jeep grill, which in my way was almost per, But this is nothing like the Silverado Grill. Like this is the Silverado Grill got hate. Right? I don’t feel that hate in the jail grill. Right? Am I wrong? Is there hate? There’s some hate really, but I would say it’s like 10% hate and probably another 30% of 30% of dislike and then a mix of indifference before you get to probably, you know, 20% indifference and 50% like it. I I happen to like it. But the Silverado though was one of the most polarizing grills of the last five, 10 years.

Holman (40m 32s):

Right. Especially on the heavy duty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Infected with jl you brought the kink back into it. It doesn’t have that Flad face that the JK had. and then now you’ve kind of done this and I think the original one for the concept last year to kind of teased it with three D printed. What got you to where it is today?

Mark Allen (40m 49s):

That wasn a difficult thing for me as well. If, if, if that helps because I’m very much a traditionalist when it comes to that vehicle in particular. And I remember when the, the square headlights came a very simple small change that caused lots of uproar. By

Holman (41m 9s):

The way, those are now worth tremendous amounts of money.

Mark Allen (41m 11s):

Yeah. Which is, which is weird. And they’re coming back, you heard me say that’s the most important model ever. ’cause it saved the franchise. Yep. and then get the passion and I, there’s, you know, 70, 75 years of, of tradition there. That was a directive from somebody who really had to have that happen. I just give me some time with it. I think live with it for a little bit. I think you’ll be okay.

Holman (41m 44s):

I think I think it looks fresh. I like it. I liked on the concept. It’s a year later since I saw it on the concept and I I’ve to a place where I, if I

Mark Allen (41m 52s):

Had, I I’ve been around them for a while. Yeah. And, and it

Holman (41m 57s):

It looks

Mark Allen (41m 57s):

Fun. Yeah. But I get it. You know, there’s, there’s some tradition there and that’s fine. I mean we’ve we’ve used that for a logo. Yeah. Right. Which is huge. It’s still seven slots. We had some cooling issues that we had to deal with and there was a desire to that was that wasn desire to get it to be noticeable as a, an Update. Yeah. So when you’re, when you’re given just a small area to, to work with, it’s,

Holman (42m 26s):


Lightning (42m 27s):

Really interesting, the fact that he was tasked with making a noticeable Update. So it looked like a refresh, meaning not like a let’s give it a refresh and we’ll do a little bit on the dashboard a little bit. Maybe on one of the Wheel arches or whatever. It’s like no, in order to make this a noticeable refresh, you gotta mess with the most iconic part of the Jeep, which is the nose. And to Mark’s point, not only is it the nose, but it’s also the logo for the brand. Right. I mean that’s a pretty like how do you mess with something that lit literally is the logo for the brand they did. Hmm.

Holman (43m 8s):

Okay. Five concepts this year

Mark Allen (43m 9s):

At least. That Doesn, same angry eyes.

Holman (43m 11s):

No. Geez. If you would’ve done that, we couldn’t be friends anymore. Where what is your official stand with Angry Bird Grills?

Mark Allen (43m 20s):

Generally not a fan, but also I realize that it’s a highly customizable vehicle. People wanna put their own spin on it. That’s fine. It’s okay if they have bad taste,

Holman (43m 30s):

We’ll leave it at that. Fair enough. All. right. So five concepts here in Moab. Yeah. Do we wanna start with the vintage one or the brightly colored one?

Mark Allen (43m 39s):

Let’s start with the pink one. All.

Holman (43m 40s):

Right. So pink by the way, we’ve is is it Tuscadero?

Mark Allen (43m 44s):


Holman (43m 44s):

It’s a different color paint. No,

Mark Allen (43m 46s):

There’s a nice story behind it. Okay. So and it’s, and it just color right? Yeah. It’s tough to even call that a concept of any sort. It’s a show vehicle, but the power of color and Wrangler. Yep. They go hand in hand. We treat Wrangler really differently than, than any other thing. Anything. And I have kind of, there’s four buckets of colors for regular. There’s the standard red, white, black silver. Yep. Got it. Dark gray. Then there’s sort of the, I would call, I would call them the more industrial colors or, or tones

Holman (44m 20s):

I think used to call that the vinyl siding collection. I do call

Mark Allen (44m 23s):

Them the vinyl siding collection. Yeah. So we’re talking about tans grays,

Holman (44m 26s):

Stingray, Goby

Mark Allen (44m 28s):


Holman (44m 29s):

Gator sarge. so

Mark Allen (44m 30s):

Yeah the very, very military inspired colors, but they’re more muted and drab even we have the cartoon colors, which are the bright oranges, bright yellow, hydro

Holman (44m 43s):

Blue, high velocity pumpkin.

Mark Allen (44m 45s):

Not, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t classify hydro blue. Okay. ’cause it’s a metallic. Oh, So. we, we went back and started doing what’s called a straight shade. Color dozer is a good Yep. Good example. We wish we renamed to nacho at some point. Yeah. But that wasn, it’s a bright color. No metallic. Just a solid. Then there’s these sort of, I call them jewel tone colors. And they’re, they’re aimed at a very specific group of people who love wranglers. And they are mojito, which is a metallic green. The bikini, which was hugely

Holman (45m 21s):

Successful. that wasn the tealish color.

Mark Allen (45m 22s):

Yeah. And because that was a zone no one was in. Right. Like in the eighties, you could get the

Holman (45m 28s):

Last You. know what that color reminds me of is like a 1994 Ford Ranger in Calypso green

Mark Allen (45m 37s):


Holman (45m 38s):

Escort. Yeah. That was the last time I saw that color when I saw that shade.

Mark Allen (45m 42s):

It’s, it’s a zone that’s been abandoned and it looks

Holman (45m 44s):

Good on Wrangler. that

Mark Allen (45m 45s):

Wasn huge for us, honestly. Yeah. Another good example, and then I, I love this one. We have a color we use on several different cars. It’s a dark red, super metallic on Sienna Grand Cherokee. It’s called Velvet

Holman (45m 58s):

Red. My wife’s four by e is the same color,

Mark Allen (46m 0s):

Same color. We exact same color. You Santa on a Wrangler and we call it SNAs Berry. And Jim, I, I remember when we, we introed the color and that wasn Jim Morrison and he’s, he looks at his cue card, he’s reading it and he looks over at me. He goes, really? I’m like, go ahead. so Yeah, so it’s SNAs Berry.

Holman (46m 20s):

So SNAs Berry was a takeoff on Willy Wonka’s chocolate factory. Right. don don’t know. Okay. Okay. Okay. So

Mark Allen (46m 26s):

I think you’re confusing it with a Sno berry.

Holman (46m 28s):

You’re right, you’re right. That I do remember that

Mark Allen (46m 30s):

That wasn just a, a take on raspberry. Anyway, so then, which brings us to, I was, I kept trying to talk the brand into doing pink. They were afraid I was gonna burn the whole thing to the ground branch

Holman (46m 42s):

And be Barbie G Paint or whatever.

Mark Allen (46m 44s):

Yeah. And they finally got the guts up. Honestly, that is really what happened. And we, in 2021, we did Tuscadero,

Holman (46m 53s):

Which, which was a paint. Our friend Nina Barlow got a Tuscadero four XE and put Bronze Wheels on it with the four by eight blue accents. And it actually looked really good. And

Mark Allen (47m 2s):

It, it sounds nutty, but Wrangler can

Holman (47m 4s):

Pull it off. It can. And so Tuscadero is nice because that wasn kind of a purpley blue hue to it. It wasn’t like a bright Pepto Bmal or a Pink Panther. Pink. No. And Tuscadero,

Mark Allen (47m 16s):

There’s a certain teenage doll that we won’t name. Right. You know, she, she has a Jeep. Yeah. The hard numbers on that were for Tuscadero, we predicted about 3000 units for sales and set up for that. And it, it turned out it took off on us. Yeah. It went, it went kind of wild. And we never really get to fulfill all the orders for it. And there’s

Holman (47m 44s):

A subculture of people that have peaked Jeep like clubs now. Yeah. And there’s a lot of guys who love the color,

Mark Allen (47m 50s):

All the clubs, gray stain, gray, you know, clubs. It’s crazy.

Holman (47m 54s):

How many did they actually produce? He didn’t say. He didn’t say. I’m sure he is not gonna give you the sales numbers, but, well, if you had to guess, did they do 5,000, 10,000 at least? No, at least 3000. I. think it sounds like they bought enough paint Right. From their supplier figure. Maybe 5,000 or something like that would probably be a safe bet. Gotcha. Between three and five maybe. So, I mean, they fulfilled all the 3000 they had planned on and then there was, and then, and then sound. Right. and then, and then they didn’t finish all the rest of the orders that were out there for it. Gotcha. You know, that’s, that’s kind of a weird thing. You know, sometimes Jeep just does a special edition color and people trade their Jeeps in ’cause they want that color. It’s a make That’s really crazy. How, what is the aftermarket like on, on those specialty colors? The lime greens, the pinks, the whatever I identical, identical to the rest of the Jeeps.

Holman (48m 38s):

There’s not a, nobody’s, they’re not like baseball cards where people trading them. No, no, no. They’re not precious or anything like that. No. I mean, there’s people, mojito was a really bright lime, metallic green, almost like a metallic Kawasaki green in a way. And mojito, I mean, never came on the 3 92. And there’s people stripping their entire Jeeps down to paint it in mojito, like their three 90 twos. ’cause they wanted that color. It’s kind of kinda crazy. I just thought they would be more collector ish. I mean, people, the difference with the Jeep brand is most people use their stuff. Well, I get it. That doesn’t mean they make, they, they should be any less collectible, but that doesn’t mean they should be any less used either. Does one preclude the other? I mean, if you’re collectible, you probably don’t want scratches and dents and rust all over it from dragging over rocks.

Holman (49m 22s):

I guess

Mark Allen (49m 24s):

My point there were no mechanical changes to the car. There was no feature changes to the car. it just a color option. And it spurred sails. Yeah. Now that’s not gonna happen on a, an accord or a even a pickup truck. Maybe a little bit. But Wrangler, it’s a big deal now. It falls off really quickly. It translates a little bit to, let’s say a renegade or something. Certainly not a Grand Cherokee or anything Wrangler’s so special. And that’s, that’s the whole point of this conversation anyway. We were setting up to, to make the, the vehicles for this year. And I left an open category. And that wasn Christian who runs the brand, he says, I want another pink Jeep.

Mark Allen (50m 9s):

And he was talking about something more Pepto. And I like, I’m not doing that, but I will deliver a, a pink. And we, we’ve found this color. It’s super cool. It’s, it’s more, honestly, it’s more magenta indoors. It’s actually purple and then outdoors. Outdoors. It rolls it into this beautiful pink. I’ve not heard a single bad thing. It’s not for everybody. Yeah, I get it. But it is just undeni undeniably a beautiful

Holman (50m 36s):

Color. I wouldn’t buy it for myself. If my wife wanted a car in that color, I’d be fine

Mark Allen (50m 39s):

With it. Oh yeah. Yeah. I, I am married to the, the girl that has to have her Jeep the brightest. So then let’s get to some of the, the, the more interesting capability bits on the car. We put it on 30 sevens. We called David a v, we’ve got some bits from them. Bumpers, wheels, tire

Holman (50m 58s):

Carrier. Never heard of them.

Mark Allen (50m 60s):

High quality stuff. I really, yeah.

Holman (51m 2s):

Oh, weight. Yes.

Mark Allen (51m 3s):

I, and it’s also the body style is my, my all time favorite half doors and a power top. Yeah. You can open up or close the car down really, really fast. Probably the most interesting technical piece on it. It is equipped with the, it’s a new product. It’s the Accu Air Air

Holman (51m 21s):

Suspension. Oh yeah. So

Mark Allen (51m 22s):

Four corner air suspension. I didn’t even know it existed. And I saw a video that wasn, that wasn Eddie from Whale Life.

Holman (51m 31s):

So I saw him testing the ACU Air Jeep when I was pre-running the Mojave Road like three or four weeks ago. Yeah. And we were at the Aton Canyon Crossing. I’m like, Hey, I know you. And he and I talked on the side. He and his wife Cindy were there. And I asked ’em, I quizzed him on the ACU energy. ’cause I’m not a big fan necessarily of air suspension when you have articulating axles or when we

Mark Allen (51m 49s):

We’ll get to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Holman (51m 51s):

Compression obviously the spring rate changes and the air, all that stuff.

Mark Allen (51m 54s):

Yeah. They, they’re, they’re sort of backwards from what they want to be. Anyway, I find out, you know, I’m watching Eddie and then appears on camera. Mark Turner, who retired outta the business a few years ago, he and I are, are really close friends. And I’m like, I call him up, I’m like, what the hell are you doing here? So he hooked me up with two kids for these things and we’re trying ’em out. I’m actually pretty impressed that wasn a really comprehensive kid. But,

Holman (52m 20s):

And he had a lot of good things to say about it. He put like three or 4,000 miles on. Yeah. There’s zero issues, no bags blown or anything like

Mark Allen (52m 25s):

That. Like really, it’s, it’s a tricky thing too. ’cause that bag, it operates kind of like a, like a turtleneck Yeah. Right. Sweater. And it’s gotta fold it into itself into say where if you’re doing a square body Chevy or something like that, it makes sense. It’s a shorter spring on the Jeep. It’s,

Holman (52m 42s):

It’s a tall spring.

Mark Allen (52m 43s):

The demand is high on. Yeah. And it’s an open cavity airbag. So airbags, when when it’s up, it’s high. It is a high rate. When it’s, when it’s down, it’s a low rate. It’s, it’s a variable rate spring. And to get the the damping on a variable, you kind of need variable rate damping. Yeah. I’m offering some feedback on that. But I, what I’ve seen so far, it works really pretty good. It gets impressively low to get grandma into the car, which actually, actually I have to do sometimes where I Wheel in Canada, I’m either ducking behind under a, a branch or a tree that I’m too lazy to get out with a so

Holman (53m 29s):

Yeah get down,

Mark Allen (53m 29s):

Or I’m wading through a river in the springtime. That’s super high. Those are really good situations to have that. It’s fast. We have ours running on a single pump, but with two pumps I understand. Even faster. and then you get onboard air too, which is really cool.

Lightning (53m 46s):

We’re gonna have to get the Accu wear. Oh, say it again. We’re gonna have to get the Accu Wear guys on again. Oh yeah. I definitely wanna talk about this in more detail. ’cause I’m, I’m curious about it. I really wanna get some seat time in it because it’s one of those vehicles that defies all the things you think it should be. And yet it still works. I’m familiar with how the bags work, but I but on the Jeep and in order to get the articulation that a straight axle would have, like how are they pulling that off? don Don’t know. It just, they, they, they, how do they do what a coil spring can do? I magic don. Don’t know. It’s gonna be interesting

Mark Allen (54m 21s):

Guys. The, the texts that put ’em on the cars said they were super easy to put on. They’re complex. Yeah. There’s a lot to it. Yeah. You’d have to do a lot of plumbing, but we’re in mo we’re gonna try it

Holman (54m 33s):

Out. It’s an interesting area to explore for

Mark Allen (54m 35s):

Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Holman (54m 37s):

So Cherokee, so that, you usually have a vintage vehicle.

Mark Allen (54m 42s):

Not usually, but the, you’re referencing the 78 Cherokee that we have a Resto mod. And it’s a fun, interesting story. It is a 1978 Cherokee that we bought off of Craigslist. I think we paid 2,500 bucks for it. It didn’t have a powertrain in it, which didn’t matter. It had some rusty bits done on the floor, which we were gonna cut out anyway. It had Hosted a fat girl dance party on its roof at some point. It, it had a smelly interior and it had the world’s most perfect dent free razor grill ever.

Holman (55m 19s):

No way. Oh

Mark Allen (55m 19s):

My God. Yeah. We were So you

Holman (55m 21s):

Didn’t have to do any of the with the grill. The,

Mark Allen (55m 23s):

The grill was,

Holman (55m 24s):

That’s my favorite

Mark Allen (55m 24s):

Grill was Pristine. It’s the right one. Yeah. Oh, the 22 slot or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, here’s, here’s the deal. I get funded through the brand to, to build these things. I do get a lot of free rein on these. We, we, the fight is always, you know, they’re giving me quite a bit of money to, to build these and like yeah. We’re not really in on the rest of, we don’t sell those old Jeeps anymore. I’m like, trust me on this. And they’re, they’re usually the biggest stars. Yeah, of course. To Update it, we fitted onto a, a Rubicon four by e chassis and the getting the wheels in the right location was, it moved the body around quite a bit.

Mark Allen (56m 9s):

Yeah. what you see on that vehicle, the doors, the steel doors are, are pretty much unaffected. Every other piece of that car has been affected. Yeah.

Holman (56m 18s):

What’s the Wheel base difference? So a JL would be one 18. One 18, yeah. One

Mark Allen (56m 23s):

18. I’m not sure what that wasn about. An eight inch difference. Yeah.

Holman (56m 26s):

Okay. Say one 10 So.

Mark Allen (56m 27s):

We pushed the front Wheel forward, the rear Wheel back. The real deciding factor was because that car is complex, the, with the two liter and the four by eight. Yeah. that wasn, we had to keep the, we made the decision to keep the instrument panel intact and placing that correctly in the vehicle low enough. ’cause it actually jails kind of high and four aft in the right position, being able to get in and outta the car. The B pillar ended up in the same location. The A pillar was actually forward Oh wow. On the, the sj and you actually get better foot swing. The point is getting in and out of the car, having done a few of these things is super natural.

Mark Allen (57m 12s):

You feel pretty good. The body mods and we, everything forward of the, the, the front door is carbon fiber. We actually put a little bit more shark nose in the grill, lengthen the hood a little bit. All those pieces are dust made. The flares, the roof is notable. The roof is Because. We had to scrap the Yeah. Steel roof. And the way that’s constructed, we, we could peel it off of there. The roof we sectioned, it’s about three inches flatter. Oh really? Yeah. But we kept all the french bread lines and stuff in it. The tailgate was destroyed and we cut the bottom of the tailgate off and, and made a meal out of that.

Mark Allen (57m 54s):

Put the right slot slotted mags on, but 17 inch to fit over the brakes. It’s got 30 sevens on it. It just, it fell together really well. Some of the details, my favorite detail is the Gremlin gas cap. So in 1978, a Jeep was owned by a M c. I’m kind of an a M C fan and it’s not a popular thing to be fan, but that arrow

Holman (58m 17s):

Is special.

Mark Allen (58m 18s):

Yeah. And the, these are constructed, the designer that I was working with on this, on this vehicle, about 400 drunken texts. And somehow we ended up with a gremlin gas cap.

Holman (58m 30s):

EBay is your friend eBay

Mark Allen (58m 31s):

Gremlin gas cap. Pristine. 400 bucks. Oh

Holman (58m 36s):

My God. 400. Oh, wow.

Mark Allen (58m 37s):

So now a whole gremlin is probably 200. Yeah,

Holman (58m 40s):

No kidding.

Mark Allen (58m 41s):

But it’s a, it’s a, it highlights a, a a period of time when these things were jewels. Yeah. And it’s a really interesting,

Holman (58m 51s):

And nothing was throwaway. I mean, you’re talking 45 years old Yeah. To have anything pristine mean that there was some level of manufacturing love that was put into it and materials.

Mark Allen (58m 59s):

Well then we went down the rabbit hole of Gremlin gas caps and, and there’s actually a super rare version of it that was, had a locking feature and the little gremlin character swung out of the way. And they’re all broken and gone. And, and they’re probably even more than four oh bucks. Yeah. But whatever. I love to, to find that stuff and tell the story

Holman (59m 23s):

And reapp appreciate it.

Mark Allen (59m 25s):

Yeah. We, we, we were talking today, we should have put a decal there that said, you know, do not fill after midnight or something.

Holman (59m 32s):

Well, it’s not too late.

Mark Allen (59m 33s):

Yeah. The interior’s super cool. It’s got, it’s got some, you know, the whole car is dipped in the seventies. It’s this butter yellow with yellow or red and orange stripes and stuff. So it, it just, one of those things that we’ve been wanting to do for a while, you have to kind of talk the brand into it. It’s heritage. I get it. But making it for by, by the way, that vehicle is probably one of the best sorted tuned vehicles that we’ve done. And it’s one thing to make a vehicle a custom vehicle like that, it’s a completely different thing to get it tuned correctly. And that often takes more time than, well it always takes more time than we have, but it takes as much time to, to tune it

Holman (1h 0m 14s):

Correctly. Is that one gonna end up on the west coast at some point?

Mark Allen (1h 0m 17s):

Yeah. I’m sure Scott will let him up in his,

Holman (1h 0m 20s):

I’ll him know. Yeah. I’ll be, I’ll be waiting for, for a driveway

Mark Allen (1h 0m 23s):

Visit. Hopeful. The, the drive train’s completely unaffected. Yeah. And it does drive really, really well. PayWay was driving today, I think he was about to ready to steal it. so Yeah,

Holman (1h 0m 32s):

He’s might be gone now. It’s it’s nicer

Mark Allen (1h 0m 34s):

Than anything he owns, but,

Holman (1h 0m 36s):

Well, and doesn’t have to do with the electronic stuff. Anyway. Oh No,

Mark Allen (1h 0m 39s):

You can ready for it. Oh No. But yeah,

Holman (1h 0m 41s):

So Grand Wagoner, we had the Wagoner, r i p father said Holy Spirit whole thing Four Wheeler ending. But our last s u v of the year was the wagoner. And it’s actually really, really capable. There’s Offroad package you can get that’s good plates and eighteens and tow hooks and all that. And we were blown away. Just if, if it would fit, it could go there. And we took it all over and, and we’re incredibly impressed with, with it.

Mark Allen (1h 1m 7s):

Look, you’re never gonna buy a grand wagon in air like that and fix it up for Moab. it just, it’s the wrong thing.

Holman (1h 1m 14s):


Mark Allen (1h 1m 15s):

But it does have great Offroad chops. It’s built, it’s a Jeep, you know, and it has diff locks in it. It has low range, real low range. It has adjustable air suspension, blah, blah, blah.

Holman (1h 1m 28s):

But mean you went and elevated it.

Mark Allen (1h 1m 30s):

Yeah. Yeah. So solidly in the overland category, we chose one. It’s a Grand Wagoner has the new three liter inline. Six twin turbo 500.

Holman (1h 1m 42s):

510 horse. Yep.

Mark Allen (1h 1m 43s):

For capability, we reconfigured the front fascia to have a bit more better approach angle. She’s got kind of a nose on her. Yeah,

Holman (1h 1m 53s):

Right. Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 1m 54s):

Let’s be honest. It’s body. They

Holman (1h 1m 56s):

Put those intercooler somewhere.

Mark Allen (1h 1m 57s):

Yep. It’s a body on frame vehicle. And we, we managed to neatly integrate a winch in there. And it’s, it’s tied into the frame Rails has some crazy L e d No, I’m sorry, laser powered. Oh yeah. Lights on the front. They haven’t tried ’em out at night yet, but they better perform because they’re not inexpensive

Holman (1h 2m 17s):

Wagoner with lasers. Yes,

Mark Allen (1h 2m 19s):

Yes. Well, there, there may be a detail on it there. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck finding that one.

Holman (1h 2m 25s):

I’ve been looking for the fat beard man on the jail for since two. Was it 20?

Mark Allen (1h 2m 29s):

Keep looking. Show

Holman (1h 2m 30s):

Up one day. He’ll show up one day. So of course, you know, the joke on that is if you look at a JL on the cow, there’s a little Easter egg with the flip flops on it. Right. And that was allegedly done for journalist Rick PayWay. Right. Who wears Tiva So. we still give Mark a hard time. that wasn really? F Fryberger Who, who’s the Jeep guy who wears flip flops? Anyway, that stuff aside. Well, they, they got confused. No, I, I just think that it’s the vibe. It’s not actual actuals in general sandals. Yeah. Anyway, I had, you know, as long as they’re not Crocs. Right. I gave Mark a hard time about, you know, where’s mine? And he said, there’s a fat man, a bearded fat man hidden somewhere on here. And that’s what the whole keep looking is.

Holman (1h 3m 11s):

So anyway, it’s, it still amuses me to No way. Someday, someday, maybe someday Holman will get his Easter egg. That if I get an Easter egg of me on there, it’ll be, I’ll be done with life. It’ll be everything I ever wanted. I’ll be memorialized as a bearded fat man on a Jeep product. That’d be good with that. Would it look like a little Buddha knowing Mark? It would probably, I’m afraid of what he would do. Actually. Maybe, maybe just skip that. Nevermind, just edit that part of it out. Nope, it’s in

Mark Allen (1h 3m 41s):

And on the capability story, we put a 35 on It didn’t change the, the, because that suspension, there’s really no options for it. So, we got the saw out and just made a Wheel openings bigger. 30 fives and then bigger Wheel openings shrinks the car. It looks so good. It looks from a distance. The proportions are right. Yeah. Proportions out More like a grand shirt. Yeah. All the chrome is gone. that wasn sort of dipped it in one of these industrial colors. It’s a, it’s a green, looks great out in the desert. and then I found out about this. It’s a piece that is attached to it. I said I’d never ever do another roof tent. I’m just out of it. It, it’s the defacto over overlanding piece you gotta have.

Mark Allen (1h 4m 24s):

But I found this piece. It’s a, it’s called a red tail overland. So our

Holman (1h 4m 29s):

Friend Ty. Yep. So Ty has been on the podcast from Overland Expo. If you wanna go back to the West episode from last year talking about it. This is a masterpiece of rooftop tents. It’s carbon fiber. The

Mark Allen (1h 4m 41s):

Way it’s not a rooftop tent. It is a rooftop camping penthouse.

Holman (1h 4m 44s):


Mark Allen (1h 4m 44s):

Is. It’s like a little Japanese hotel. Yeah,

Holman (1h 4m 46s):

It is. It is all like origami, how the panels snap out. And it’s a wedge shape, but hard sided

Mark Allen (1h 4m 52s):

And it’s

Holman (1h 4m 53s):

Huge. It is. And it’s carpeted or there’s headliner, there’s electricity up there. I mean, just everything You would need

Mark Allen (1h 4m 58s):

It a has a, a battery and a solar charger. It has heating. It has incredible connectivity to it. It’s, it’s really a nice piece. It’s not an inexpensive piece. No. But neither is a grand Wagoner fair. We thought the two fit together. And you, you’re not gonna put that piece on something smaller than Arian Wagoner the case I think is over 10 inches tall and it goes from windshield to backlight. It is really, it’s wide and it’s tall and it’s long. But the, the nice thing is it has a full-size bed in it. and then room beyond that. Well, we took advantage of that. And what we did is when we put it on the roof, the Wagoner has a rear sunroof.

Mark Allen (1h 5m 40s):

It’s a fixed sunroof. We relocated that and, and took the, the glass piece out. So now you have sort of a trapped door to go from the inside of the car up into the tent. And to make that even easier, we took out, we left just the front seats of the, of the wagoner in there and took out everything behind. So the second and third row we rhino lined the floor. We fixed it up as kind of a hangout space with beanbag chairs, pillows and stuff. And it is super cool. Tell you how

Holman (1h 6m 9s):

Big a wagoner is. Well,

Mark Allen (1h 6m 10s):

If you’ve ever been camping in crappy weather, yeah. It’s nice to have a little hangout spot. That’s what we did. We didn’t fill it with the pots and pans and refrigerators and, and stoves and all that stuff. We just made it this kind of cool hangout space. And it worked. So you could go in the, the rear door, the side door and walk to the back and go up in there. Really simple. And you, you go in there and you can deploy the, the camper from inside as well. Meaning you now have a, a small apartment with an upstairs and a downstairs. Super cool.

Holman (1h 6m 43s):

It’s an awesome piece.

Mark Allen (1h 6m 44s):

It fell together really, really well. When we, when we took first took the seats out, we were walking back and forth in it like, man, this is, this is money. And again, it is a, it’s a luxury sort of overlay vehicle.

Holman (1h 7m 2s):

Alright, so two left. I we can go, let’s do a scrambler, which by the way is a, has a different body shape, like a fast back or a flying buttress behind the front doors. And it’s, it just looks fast standing still.

Mark Allen (1h 7m 19s):

Scrambler is, and we didn’t come up with a name till real late, honestly, because it started, we say the, the vehicle starts speaking to you. What’s the intent to be a scrambler up front? Up front, but that’s okay. It works in the end. The, it’s doing a couple things. First off, it’s a different body style than we have now. It is a essentially a two-door on a four-door Wheel base. 3 92 only comes in the long Wheel base. And we were trying to come up with something that was, we didn’t wanna change the Wheel base, leave all of that intact and come up with a, just honestly a different body style.

Mark Allen (1h 8m 4s):

One of the guys did a sketch and it hooked me right away. The trick to it is it’s actually kind of a small pickup truck. In fact, the back 10 inches is right off of the gladiator, including the tailgate. It has a bit of a cartoon proportion and I love that.

Holman (1h 8m 18s):

Okay. It’s hot wheels.

Mark Allen (1h 8m 19s):

Yeah. And the magnetos, same thing. So, we didn’t chop the windshield, but we laid it back about 12 degrees, which effectively chops it pretty quick. A chopped top at 40 inch tires. I, it just thick. It’s the coolest look. It’s so good. It’s so good. Maybe it’s not practical, but I just think it’s, it just open.

Holman (1h 8m 35s):

Well we were, we were out wheeling lower 40, which is one of your first concepts that you played around back shop look and big, big wheels and tires and this like an evolution about,

Mark Allen (1h 8m 47s):

Honestly. Yeah.

Holman (1h 8m 47s):

This is an evolution of kind of, that was it 10 years later or whatever,

Mark Allen (1h 8m 53s):

2008 we did that car.

Holman (1h 8m 55s):


Mark Allen (1h 8m 55s):

It’s crazy. The other thing that’s going on with, with the scrambler is in, you’ve seen me do it before, but increasing the performance by Lightning the car. Yeah. So the whole, the hood front fenders, body side, rear fender roof are all carbon fiber pieces. and then we went deeper with it. We took off, of course the, the power top is gone, which is sort of a heavy piece. The doors are all gone. The roof seat, all the carpet trim and all that garbage stuff. All those stuff.

Holman (1h 9m 29s):

Just like would, I’m

Mark Allen (1h 9m 30s):

Getting too loose here. Got got rid of all of that. And the vehicle has shown now up on 40 inch tires, weighs 450 pounds less than it did when that wasn born.

Holman (1h 9m 41s):

Okay. So you brought some of the concepts back this year. The light weight themes you’ve had over the years. So, we talking about pork chop stitch,

Mark Allen (1h 9m 47s):

Which is because of you. Yes.

Holman (1h 9m 50s):

So. we may have told this before, don don’t remember. So I built a vehicle called Con Artist, which was a JK four Four Wheeler. And that wasn a dollar car that we got back in that wasn it 2007 when we were

Mark Allen (1h 10m 2s):

Still doing that. Yeah. Yeah.

Holman (1h 10m 3s):

And that wasn a manual 3.8 and Mark drove it and he was like, this thing is the biggest pig that I think it must have weighed 6,500 pounds and armor everything on.

Mark Allen (1h 10m 14s):

Yeah. that wasn shy with

Holman (1h 10m 15s):

My, so the following year he came out with a pork chop concept, which was basically an f you to me. Let me show you how you can do it and into it way later. So my follow up question to that, and by the way, I’ve Dr I’ve had the opportunity to drive pot. Pork chop, like I said before, is me and pork chop will always be buddies. We we’re always tied in because of that. What was the lightest weight or the most weight out of any of your lightweighting concepts? So in the, in the grand scheme of 450 pounds from scrambler, what was stitch and what was pork chop stitch

Mark Allen (1h 10m 45s):

Was a, a little over a thousand pounds.

Holman (1h 10m 47s):

A thousand pounds from stitch. Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 10m 49s):

So let me, wow. So the three lightweight cars that we’ve done Yeah. Have all the been common denominator has been two door on 30 fives. The pork chop. The first car we did was a three eight for the manual. The second vehicle stitch was a three six with an auto. and then the last vehicle was four speed, which was the two liter, two

Holman (1h 11m 10s):

Liter turbo

Mark Allen (1h 11m 11s):

With an auto. And it’s, everybody’s confused by that, that wasn four speed because that wasn a four cylinder. Yeah.

Holman (1h 11m 19s):

Tuned up by the way. That’s

Mark Allen (1h 11m 20s):

Be a rad that I got. Yeah. I got a friend over at s r t, they went after it and, and tuned it. That car’s wicked quick.

Holman (1h 11m 26s):

You step on the throttle at like 20 miles an hour and it does a burnout. Yeah. Lights, I mean, just lights and tires. So Awesome. It’s

Mark Allen (1h 11m 32s):

Crazy. Those vehicles work so well. I I I tell people all the time, like watch the weight. Yeah. I’m not saying, you know, do crazy things and, and cut the car up. I mean, we took the heaters out, which I regret every time it’s cold.

Holman (1h 11m 47s):

Yes. So you reminded me this cold morning when we went wheeling, like, by the way, heater’s not in this car.

Mark Allen (1h 11m 53s):

I remember it way too long. But just, it just sort of a, you know, guys watch the weight. Yeah. ’cause it matters. It’s performance. Right. You’re after those vehicles. None of them have a lift on ’em because when we stick the weight out, they just went up.

Holman (1h 12m 7s):

Yeah. You don’t need the lift because the spring’s basically just,

Mark Allen (1h 12m 11s):

In fact, we can get the tires down to like a P S I and they still look like tires. It’s crazy. But they are, they’re like a spider on the rocks. Yeah. The last one we did four speed was honestly try to get it as close to a side by side mentality out of a wrangler, which was cool. ’cause it still has a license.

Holman (1h 12m 33s):

How many pounds off of that one?

Mark Allen (1h 12m 35s):

That was like nine 50.

Holman (1h 12m 36s):

Okay. So, so the thousand theme on those cars, but those were all two doors, obviously scramblers on a four door chassis. So you’ve, you’re already gonna have some

Mark Allen (1h 12m 45s):

Additional ways. Yeah. that wasn just not really a, a concerted effort. Yeah.

Holman (1h 12m 49s):

It wasn’t a lightweighting exercise, but you were to do what you could to make

Mark Allen (1h 12m 53s):

The performance. I mean Yeah, we took the doors off permanently. Right. But I I, I would be interested in the, the feedback of like, you know, a look, the, the long Wheel based two-door didn’t make sense when a a 33 inch tire was the Yeah. The, the really popular tire, the four door. I think when we, when we did that, and honestly I was a critic of the four door when it first came out. I didn’t see what everybody else was seeing. I just saw loss of nimbleness. Yeah. And this sort of, you know, breakover angle was, was bothering me. But now that was when a a 35 was a big tire.

Mark Allen (1h 13m 35s):

30 sevens were, were around forties. Were kind of exotic. Yeah. It’s really not unusual to see forties in, in

Holman (1h 13m 44s):

My a V 3 92 on 37 looks small here.

Mark Allen (1h 13m 48s):

Yeah. And the drive’s actually really nice. I’m sure. Yeah. I’ve seen, you know, there’s 50 fours driving around

Holman (1h 13m 52s):

The town. Oh, Moab weight. Yeah. My gosh. It’s

Mark Allen (1h 13m 55s):

Not, it’s super, but it scales the vehicle difference. So it’s sort of asking the question like, could you do a, a long Wheel base?

6 (1h 14m 3s):

You need to keep it down. Why is that? Because the state police are out there looking for you. No, you’re kidding me. I know. I’m kidding.

Mark Allen (1h 14m 12s):

We just got, we just got broken into

Holman (1h 14m 13s):

Yeah. Got what? Just fire, fire your weapon at him. We’re doing it. We’re doing podcast. Podcast. You’re doing our podcast. Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 14m 20s):

Congratulations. Jason Bowles. The, the Brains Behind Magneto. The

Holman (1h 14m 23s):

Magneto. Hey. Perfect timing to talk about Magneto. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 14m 27s):


Holman (1h 14m 28s):

Pull the chair. Yeah. I mean, as well part of the show now.

Mark Allen (1h 14m 31s):

So Yeah Jason Bulls. Well, Bob still just broke into our room. Perfect timing. that wasn not staged at all.

Holman (1h 14m 37s):

No, that, that, that was perfect timing. So you’ll have to pull your chair a little closer. So we’re, we’re, so we’ve talked to Jason in the past with Bago 1.0, Magneto 2.0, and now Magneto 3.0. So All, right. Scrambler. We we’re done crossing that off a list. So

Mark Allen (1h 14m 54s):

Magneto 3.0 Magneto. And I’d like to tell the story. Okay. And I told you the story that, that wasn I was being hounded by our c e O to make a battery electric wrangler and he wouldn’t let up. And I’m like, look, that wasn Mike Manley. And I’m like, look man, I I’m the crayon guy. I’m not an engineer by, by any means. I I was really despondent because he kept hounding me to do it and is, you know, good

Holman (1h 15m 24s):

Natured way. Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 15m 26s):

And I wanna say that wasn, that wasn cima 2018, 1919, I run into a friend of mine at cima and Jason and I Wheel together. So we’re we’re wheeling buddies and I come clean with him like, man, I, I got a problem I’m trying to solve, you know, I need to make a a battery electric field I don, I don’t even know where to begin.

Holman (1h 15m 48s):

And he’s like, funny you should say that.

Mark Allen (1h 15m 50s):

Yeah. He says, Hey, come check this out. And we’re leaning up against the post in a a, a booth at sema. Yes. And he shows me a product project that he’d been working on. And that wasn a, a vehicle that was an electric motor,

Holman (1h 16m 7s):

I would say a revered, iconic vehicle from another brand that was electrified in a way that was sh pun intended. Shocking to people. Yes. Is that all fair? that

Mark Allen (1h 16m 17s):

Wasn? Yep. that wasn a an electric motor hooked to a manual transmission. Because I’m thinking I need to keep the things that I love, the stick axles, the slinky suspension, the transfer case and all that. I’m being told over and over and over by everybody who’s smarter than me, that you don’t put a gearbox behind an electric motor that has all this torque. It’s not necessary. I’m here to tell you everybody’s wrong. what

Holman (1h 16m 45s):

You say that

Mark Allen (1h 16m 47s):

I’ve said several times that there’s a reason that your, your, your electric drill has gears in and your winch has gears. Absolutely. And in fact, we were funny thing, we were, we were searching for a gas power winch to put on the front

Holman (1h 16m 60s):

At the end. That would’ve been funny. Couldn’t find. Oh my gosh.

Mark Allen (1h 17m 3s):

Yeah. Anyway, so Jason is showing me this and then the wheels, when they start to spin and we got together and, and made the vehicle and we did it really open. We, we made it a, one of the concept cars for Moab version 1.0 on 30 fives that wasn a two door, which was probably the wrong thing to pick. The goal of the vehicle was never about range or charging or boring, stuff like that, that wasn about what does electric do to the, to the Jeep to make it a better vehicle. Offroad, because it’s coming. Yep. Right. It’s coming.

Holman (1h 17m 43s):

So might as well figure it out. Mike. Mike wanted

Mark Allen (1h 17m 45s):

Us to be smarter and ahead of the curve and go start learning. Now we said we’d make the, the vehicle, we’d bring it back three years. We’ve been tweaking it for three years. This is the final time. Next year we’ll be here with a production. The the recon, which is an electric vehicle coming out. And we’ll start playing with that. It’s been a journey of ups and downs and ins and outs. It’s been

Holman (1h 18m 16s):

So Jason, I heard a vicious rumor that Mark Allen destroyed it at some point. Is this true

7 (1h 18m 23s):

One never kisses and tells

Holman (1h 18m 26s):

You really are friends? Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 18m 30s):

One of his most admirable qualities is he can keep

Holman (1h 18m 32s):

A secret. I think the quote that I heard was it needs new everything. Something. Well

7 (1h 18m 39s):

Guess car guys knew everything never hurts.

Holman (1h 18m 44s):


Mark Allen (1h 18m 46s):

Yeah. But what we did with it this year was we upped it is now, as it stands, it’s 650 horsepower. It is 900 foot pounds of torque. It’s still through a manual six speed gearbox, which we sourced from a challenger Hellcat

Holman (1h 19m 2s):

As a T 56 or

Mark Allen (1h 19m 5s):


7 (1h 19m 5s):

60. It’s T 60 60. Oh 66. But custom straight cut gears.

Mark Allen (1h 19m 10s):

Yeah. Yeah. and then sent it off and had it beefed up,

7 (1h 19m 13s):

Had some work done. Yeah. Yeah.

Holman (1h 19m 15s):


Mark Allen (1h 19m 15s):

Maybe it’d be really clear about the gearing. We, we kept the, the transfer case, which is super important. Sure. Does it need six gears? No, it’s stupid. Yeah. It needs probably two,

Holman (1h 19m 27s):

Maybe three, maybe

Mark Allen (1h 19m 29s):

Three. What we don’t talk about a lot on that vehicle, but I think it’s notable is Because We just keep showing it off road and driving over rocks. It is completely unremarkable how it drives on the street. Meaning, and I mean that in the very best way. Yeah. It drives very normal. Let me, let me walk you through the, the sequence you, you get in the vehicle, you punch the button and it’s live, but it’s not running. You don’t start it up. Right, right, right. We know this on electric

Holman (1h 19m 58s):

Cars, the biggest hurdle, my wife’s four by eight is she pushes the button or she does the remote start and if the car’s alive. Yeah. But no, it’s not doing anything. It’s not doing anything. it just on, it’s kind of a weird thing to transition from a ice vehicle into a plugin hybrid or an ev ’cause you’re like, canal. What?

Mark Allen (1h 20m 15s):

Well, well

Holman (1h 20m 16s):

There has to be a handshake or

Mark Allen (1h 20m 17s):

Something. Me in Michigan in the winter, it’s like I want it making hot water. Yeah,

Holman (1h 20m 21s):

Yeah. Right.

Mark Allen (1h 20m 24s):

Okay. So the sequence is you’re in the vehicle. It is, it is alive. ’cause you punch the button, you select the gear you want to be in. You can, you can be first gear and say you’re in high range. Yep. And you don’t use the clutch. Right. You just put it in the gear. You want, you press the pedal and it goes Yep. You use the clutch only for shifting while moving one to 2 2, 2 to three. You don’t ever slip the clutch. Okay. You just use it to disengage, to, to change gears. And you can, you can do it, you can row through the gears. It has, it feels like compression braking when you lift off the throttle. It’s

Holman (1h 21m 2s):

Is that because of regen or is that just the, the nature of gearing?

Mark Allen (1h 21m 6s):

It’s, it’s a big, it’s a flywheel. Yeah. Right. Okay.

7 (1h 21m 9s):

Correct. Yeah. So you’ve got the flywheel effect and you get some regen that you can program in as you let off the clutch, it wants to slow it down a little bit more to give you that feeling of a real old school ice combination. Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 21m 24s):

You, you do have to rewire your brain on how the vehicle works. Yeah. You don’t rev it up, you don’t slip the clutch. It, it’s funny, you know, you come to a stop and you don’t have to do it. You just stop and then you go again. Yeah. Now here’s the other thing. So I just, that’s version A. You can walk through the gears up and down. It’s very, very familiar and ordinary. Or you can just put it in third gear drive around. Correct.

Holman (1h 21m 53s):

You done

Mark Allen (1h 21m 54s):

It. Yeah.

7 (1h 21m 54s):

One pedal mode.

Mark Allen (1h 21m 55s):

Yeah. Now here’s the really cool thing, and you know, if you ever wanna start a, an argument manual versus automatic, this has, imagine you’re in a rock guard. You’re picking your way through rocks because it’s an electric motor and I’m running a manual gearbox, don don’t have a torque converter. I don’t have to get the revs up to get the thing, the pressure and the, and the,

Holman (1h 22m 20s):

So you, you don’t have what we would call ramping the converter up where you get that like rubber band effect. So you load it up against the rock and then it like v and punches you over. Yep. and then you’re hard on the brakes. You want to stop the,

Mark Allen (1h 22m 32s):

You don’t have enough R P m and then you have too much Too

Holman (1h 22m 34s):

Much. Yeah. and then you stop it and you’ve lost that momentum. Yes.

Mark Allen (1h 22m 37s):

So two foot to surge. Yep. Yes. It doesn’t have that. And the other thing it doesn’t have, so it has, it has the direct feel of a manual gearbox without any of the fear of the clutch. Clutch. Yeah. So because it’s not running like that, it can’t stall. Yeah. It’s not, it’s not a motor that needs to to be idling so it can’t stall. So you have absolute finite. That

Holman (1h 23m 3s):

Sounds a lot amazing.

Mark Allen (1h 23m 4s):

Control. and then with the gears, you, you just, the ge all the gears do is really move the torque around. Right. So you can, you can climb a rock in sixth gear, but it feels like you’ve got a, a loose converter if you put it down in first gear and you’re, you’re in low range, it’s really immediate. So it’s, it is important to have gears. Yeah, sure. Now we have too many probably in this product, but we learned a really, a really important thing there.

7 (1h 23m 37s):

For example, the first gear four, low max motor R p m, you can go four miles an hour

Mark Allen (1h 23m 44s):

A unimog.

7 (1h 23m 45s):


Holman (1h 23m 46s):

Without the noise. Didn’t, the

Mark Allen (1h 23m 48s):

OG has like a, a has the rabbit, the, the turtle and then a clock. Yeah. Right.

7 (1h 23m 53s):

And the beauty as Mark’s saying is there’s no minimum R P M anymore. Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 23m 57s):

Right. Yeah.

7 (1h 23m 58s):

You could, you could press your brake on an internal combustion and bring it down into the four 50 range, but then you’ll stall. Yeah. Yeah. So you can really go up at a hundred, 200. Yeah. Yeah. If you’re wanting to do that and have that ultimate control,

Mark Allen (1h 24m 11s):

It is really, really finesse. Yeah. For that. and then this year you put a whole bunch of regen into it. So you can one pedal mention going down, wipe out hill, no brakes, and you actually have to give it throttle Yeah. To go down a very steep

Holman (1h 24m 28s):

Hill. So there’s some EV vehicles that are out there that I helped kind of either develop or work with the engineers to get the Offroad feel. And so one of the manufacturers had a rock crawl mode and the rock crawl mode, the only thing they didn’t like is when you lifted, there’s no crawl that was built into the system. You just stopped. I’m like, I don’t want hill hole because I’m watching the terrain go under the vehicle and I’m losing my line. Yeah. Because you’re stopping the vehicle because you don’t, don’t have creep in it. Right. Right. And so those types of things are like us recalibrating what electric does, but making it work for how we use it off roads. So that’s really interesting to appear that and you know, just, there’s so many tricks that you can do with an electric motor setup in order to tackle the terrain.

Holman (1h 25m 17s):

So I find that part of it really interesting.

7 (1h 25m 19s):

And the way you can do that is having the mechanical reduction of that first gear. So if you had a standard single speed, it’s harder to do that. Yeah, sure. So by having the extra gears, you can select, you can get your mechanical advantage.

Mark Allen (1h 25m 34s):

The other thing, and everybody told me, oh, that’d be really easy to do. Right?

Holman (1h 25m 40s):

Not so much.

Mark Allen (1h 25m 41s):

Oh my gosh. Yeah. It’s been a journey. Well

Holman (1h 25m 44s):

I remember, but it’s been fun. Came coming up to Moab. Jim had invite, invited me out to Moab for four by eight and we helped it, the engineers calibrate the pedal field in low range. I mean, I think you were with me that wasn me, Nina, I think Rick, I don’t

Mark Allen (1h 25m 57s):

Think I was on the trip. But yeah,

Holman (1h 25m 58s):

So, we, we basically had the engineers in the back and then we calibrated those that feel, because the other thing electric doesn’t have is I don’t, I want creep in it, but if I’m climbing and I lift up, I don’t wanna roll back. Right. So I want to have hill hold on top of it overlaid so that I don’t lose that momentum as I’m picking my way up. Something technical. Yeah. Again, it goes back to how does an EV work and how can we adapt the software to make sure that it’s accomplishing what we want to do, you know, on the trail.

7 (1h 26m 28s):

So as Mark said, imagine going up a, a rock garden where your minimum R P M, depending on automatic or manual, you’d be surging and then you don’t wanna roll back. You no longer have to do that in first year. You just keep your foot on the gas and just lift up a little bit. You let momentum stop you. Yeah. The gravity. and then you can just keep going again, you don’t lose that ability to move and stop on a, let’s say 45, 50 degree angle

Mark Allen (1h 26m 56s):

Downside manual trance with electric motor. You can’t put it in first gear and walk away from just it it parking

7 (1h 27m 2s):

Brake imperative.

Mark Allen (1h 27m 4s):

Yes. Oh really? Yeah. It doesn’t have compression.

Holman (1h 27m 6s):

Oh, good point.

Mark Allen (1h 27m 7s):

Yeah. Yeah. You, you know, like in in low range you could park the thing in first gear and it’ll hold whatever rail you put it on. Yeah. This one. Yeah. So let me be really, really clear. We are not going to do a battery electric wrangler that has a manual transmission that wasn a means to an end to keep all the axles and suspension and stuff

Holman (1h 27m 28s):

Who’s an exercise.

Mark Allen (1h 27m 29s):

And we’ve learned a ton. Yeah. It’s been really cool.

Holman (1h 27m 31s):

Alright. Well you heard that disappointing news directly from Mark Allen, head of Jeep design. Right. All angry emails too.

Mark Allen (1h 27m 39s):

Not as show.

Holman (1h 27m 40s):

Not as show. Yeah. Well what, what was the, the takeaway for all the vehicles Is there, is there one that I guess maybe scrambler, is that the one that you’re most excited about? Or they all your children and you love ’em all equally?

Mark Allen (1h 27m 55s):

Oh, the takeaways that I, and we, I need to be fired probably. Yeah. We’ll get some paint mill. No, honestly, I, and I’m kidding. I really like that I have categories that we, we did this year and try to fulfill, you know, the rest of ’em. All the high performance slash lightweight

Holman (1h 28m 13s):

Hybrid, the ev I mean, you really hit everything.

Mark Allen (1h 28m 16s):

Yeah. Yeah. The, the Wagoner finally getting my hands on a wagoner and I think we did it right. I really like how that vehicle presents now. Yeah. You know, taking all the crow off like that and there, that, that took a while. that wasn a lot. But yeah, we, we actually, I hope that people see when we do those, the passion that goes into them, the, the, that we’re, we’re wired into the enthusiast side. I’m proud of that. It’s a unique thing. I think we’re the only people that do this. The magic is, I can flip the keys to a media Yeah.

Mark Allen (1h 28m 57s):

And they can drive the vehicle

Holman (1h 28m 58s):

And you designed them to be used.

Mark Allen (1h 28m 60s):

You used them on the truck. Yeah. They’re fully, fully functional vehicles and that, you know, we don’t overdo it on the, the show part. Yeah. We kind of over index on the, the functional part. I need to give props to the guys that, that build these cars. It’s an incredibly small team and it’s a secret little location that we have. It’s people we contract and I think it’s eight people building seven cars,

Holman (1h 29m 24s):

Which is crazy

Mark Allen (1h 29m 25s):

Amazing. They’re super efficient and their hearts are all into it. It’s not an easy thing to do. I always say it’s a, it’s an extra credit job I never get the credit for Yeah. At work. ’cause you know, I’ve got a day job, I’ve got a lot of stuff to take care of. But this is just purely out of, out of passion.

Holman (1h 29m 46s):

Well, I’m going to say what I say to you every year, how the hell are you top yourself next year? I’m sure you, the wheels are already turning and I’ll know you’ve run out of ideas when the Sury, Jeep and Coral shows

Mark Allen (1h 29m 57s):

Up. Oh yeah, yeah. Fred Williams always wants me to do a either a van or, or a some

Holman (1h 30m 2s):

Service at some point, Mark Allen is gonna do a survey before he’s done. He says he won’t, but something will move his spirit. I, I guarantee you,

Mark Allen (1h 30m 9s):

I’ll tell you, I’ve alluded to it, I’m excited that we’ll have the recon to start working on Recon is a battery electric vehicle shown and or it’s very in the vein of, of Wrangler. I think it’ll be an enthusiast welcome vehicle and I’m excited about that.

Holman (1h 30m 29s):


Mark Allen (1h 30m 29s):

Right. Yeah. I I’ve done everything I’ve done encompasses, I’ve done Patriots and it is funny. I I, we, you see, we, we do mainly wranglers and I’ll do, we’ll bring a Grand Cherokee or something and everybody’s like, yeah, that’s great. Where’s the wranglers? And so Yeah, because we’re in moa

Holman (1h 30m 50s):

Well this is, this is Mecca for, for Jeep folks and we appreciate everything that you guys do for the brand and for the enthusiasts to show that you care about people who, who use the product and that you guys do it yourself and just appreciate your time. I know normally we’re out in the middle of getting sand blasted by the wind. It’s nice to

Mark Allen (1h 31m 10s):

Get the picture up. Yeah, please do that. So put that picture up

Holman (1h 31m 12s):

Every year. So somebody brought that up a couple days ago maybe yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. And they said something about that six floor Jeep. So Mike Manley, who was the c e O of Jeep a while back, they built him a JK that had a six floor and then that wasn a precursor to V eight powered Jeeps. And Mark and I were out driving it and there is a photo, we’re, we’re in the sand dunes and we’re completely engulfed inside. It looks like outdoors no time.

Mark Allen (1h 31m 38s):

Like movie the Mummy, right? Oh

Holman (1h 31m 39s):

Yeah, exactly. And Mark said that when that thing was crushed, sand was still coming out of it. And I had somebody bring it up and I showed ’em the picture and they were just like laughing. They just couldn’t even believe it. Like, and I took my 3 9 2 out on the dunes today and I’m like, I’ve got a picture from this exact spot. Although this one has doors in top, which

Mark Allen (1h 31m 55s):

Is great. I have a, a funny story about that car. So that wasn a, that wasn a six four, the the manual trans two. Yep. And Mike wanted to have it, we got it to his house. He wanted to take it home or whatever. And he had two teenage sons. And I got a call that we need to come pick the car up because the drive chef fell out. You could put two or two together. What happened there?

Holman (1h 32m 23s):

I, I might have made a drive shaft fall out of a Jeep vehicle more than once in my, in my day. so

Mark Allen (1h 32m 29s):

Yeah alright,

Holman (1h 32m 30s):

Appreciate your time and we’ll, we’re looking forward to seeing how you top yourself next year.

Mark Allen (1h 32m 34s):

Thank you.

Holman (1h 32m 36s):

Sean Holman with the cheap guys. Come on. There’s some great nuggets in there, right? Yep. I, you know, I think the thing about Mark and, and just getting interviews like that in general is how often do you get an executive that relaxed to is walking you through the thought process of products and things like that. I mean that I I don know all too often they’re scripted and they’re on a stage and there’s a PR person sitting next to them or what I just, they’re not in a room sitting on coffee, chilling, no beer, whatever or whatever. No, but in all seriousness, I, I think that’s one of the things that, that we’re able to do on the show is we really get personal with some of these, these guys, Because, We have the relationship and hopefully, you know, the listeners listening, you guys value that because I just think it’s an experience that isn’t normally something that you would be able to, you know, capture or, or get to be a part of by listening in.

Holman (1h 33m 30s):

And I just think that’s something special that we do. So. Well I feel like you had quite a bit of news in that segment about Jeeps. But if you are not into Jeeps and you want some other news, we got this.

8 (1h 33m 42s):

What’s new in trucks? We need to know what’s new in trucks. We need to know what’s new in trucks. We need

3 (1h 33m 50s):

To know lifted, lowered and everything in between. What’s happening in the world of

Holman (1h 33m 56s):

Trucks? Ah, hey lighting. Did you hear? No. Nope. Didn’t hear Lincoln revealed the new quote unquote new Nautilus, which is a fine looking ss U V I only bring this up because this particular Ss u v is going to be built in China and sold in America. And I feel like for an American luxury brand that is, that is rooted in American cars, American luxury. Yeah. Is this really the time to have a product like that built in China and brought over here, gets the gong out that might not have been super appropriate. Well, I’m just saying like, it’s like the Gong show from the eighties.

Holman (1h 34m 38s):

It gets out. Gone. I got it. Fail. I’m just saying fail, fail, fail. I wanna know what you guys think. I wanna, I wanna wanna know what our truck show podcast listener, wrong Country thinks of American manufacturing, American companies bringing a product that was made in China to sell back here. I just, it doesn’t sit well with me.

Lightning (1h 34m 57s):

Same here.

Holman (1h 34m 59s):

Hey lighting, did you hear? No, God

Lightning (1h 35m 2s):

No. Nope. I didn’t.

Holman (1h 35m 4s):

The new Ford Ranger also going to be made in China.

Lightning (1h 35m 7s):

No it’s not. Well

Holman (1h 35m 8s):

Chinese version, they’re not gonna don don’t think they’re going sell the US truck here, but that would, could you imagine that would be like the

Lightning (1h 35m 13s):


Holman (1h 35m 14s):

That would be like them saying F one 50 sold in China. Oh. Or built in China and sold it. Oh dude, by the way, I’m not saying that’s happening. it just, they’re the, there’s gonna be a Chinese domestic market ranger that they build it, which is fine. I have no problem if you’re overseas and you’re building for that market and it’s, it’s easier to build it, whatever, but I just don’t, don don’t, I’m not in love with the build in China and bring here thing. Yeah. Hey lighting, did you hear? No,

Lightning (1h 35m 37s):


Holman (1h 35m 39s):

Apparently there’s gonna be a massive rebranding in Jaguar Land Rover where Range Rover Defender and Discovery are gonna be become their own brands. Which I, I hate this. To me, this is just as bad as everybody taking names off their car and going to Alpha numeric to copy the Germans.

Lightning (1h 35m 58s):

Do you feel that Range Rover modern new, like in the last like three, four years of Range Rovers, Tesla, those drivers haul ass more than other drivers. Tesla. Tesla. No, Tesla

Holman (1h 36m 8s):

I see range Tesla

Lightning (1h 36m 9s):


Holman (1h 36m 10s):

Tesla. Tesla drivers are the worst. Tesla. They, if the, if the Range Rover drivers are 20% faster than everyone else, yeah. The Tesla drivers are 38% faster than everybody else. Oh,

Lightning (1h 36m 18s):

Don don’t feel that. Oh my god, I feel that the Tesla drivers are the new Prius drivers.

Holman (1h 36m 22s):

No way, dude. No, I was on my way home from Vegas. No,

Lightning (1h 36m 25s):

Not to speed wise. They’re just like oblivious to the world and don,

Holman (1h 36m 28s):

Don’t dunno, but dude, they’re, they’re flying. I remember cars passing me at a hundred miles an hour the whole way home getting to Riverside where there’s traffic, they’re cutting in and out. It, it’s obnoxious. It’s quite frankly obnoxious.

Lightning (1h 36m 40s):

Don’t you think that Teslas have an automated system to keep them from lane changing without signals and no whatnot? No, no driver

Holman (1h 36m 45s):

Over ride, dude. Yeah. No, they don’t, they don’t drive themselves all the time. Do

Lightning (1h 36m 49s):

You think that there are people, are they, are Tesla owners enthusiasts or are they just going fast because it’s silent? Yes. And they just don’t know their own speed or their

Holman (1h 36m 58s):

A-hole or, or something or

Lightning (1h 36m 59s):

That too? Yeah,

Holman (1h 36m 60s):

I don’t know. I just think it’s weird. You know, they’re trying to reimagine their brand. It’s kinda like a, it’s a, it’s the Raptor brand. It’s the Corvette brand. It’s the Mustang brand. I hate these sub-brands. Stop making sub-brands. Just your brand makes cars. Like who cares if the brand is better than the mothership? Make the mothership brand better.

Lightning (1h 37m 18s):


Holman (1h 37m 19s):

Stop putting crutches on everything so well more people know about this and we don’t want it to be associated with our main brand. Let’s just dumb just, you just work harder at making your company not suck rather than tricking people

Lightning (1h 37m 32s):


Holman (1h 37m 32s):

Holman stuff anyway. Don’t suck. Yeah, don’t suck. Hey lighting, did you hear? No

Lightning (1h 37m 37s):

Way. Nope.

Holman (1h 37m 38s):

Ram recalls 131,700 trucks for engines that can stall out.

Lightning (1h 37m 44s):


Holman (1h 37m 45s):

So this was the E to five seven in the Ram. 15 hundreds. Apparently there have been quite a few reports as of March 30th, 206 customer records, 636 warranty claims and 53 field reports about the truck stalling. And apparently there’s a report on one accident. Fortunately, Ram has gone back and figured out what it is and it just gonna require an Update of the powertrain control module. Apparently the calibration of the software in those trucks will make the vehicle apparently overly rich in certain conditions that will actually stall it out, be when it’s going between the hybrid version and the gas version when the hybrid motor comes in.

Holman (1h 38m 26s):

And anyway, long story short, short story, long don don’t know the Ram 1500. If you got an e torque, bring it in, get a computer reflash and you should be golden in case you’ve ever experienced this. Hey lighting, did you hear? No,

9 (1h 38m 39s):

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Holman (1h 38m 41s):

Nope. In the long line of Toyota Tacoma, T DTR shots more have been released. My god. And they’re, they’re getting good at hype. I mean it’s all about the hype machine. So if you wanna follow at Toyota usa, you’ll find out that there appears to be a shot with a spinning Wheel where you can see, guess what? A rear disc brake.

Lightning (1h 39m 5s):

Oh my God. Welcome to 2023

Holman (1h 39m 8s):

You guys, everyone finally getting rear discs on your Tacoma for 2024. Huh? They also did a second teaser shot that showed off the Fox Qs three internal bypass. Do do you think they’ll love a b s finally? Yeah, they have that today. Oh, they do. So anyway, apparently there’s, there’s some more love coming to the Tacoma. It’s, it’s looking like it’s gonna be a pretty, pretty badass little truck. So kinda like that. Hey lighting, did you hear? How

Lightning (1h 39m 35s):

About new?

Holman (1h 39m 35s):

Nope. Spy photos of the 2024 Chevy Colorado. Z R two Bison, which is the A E V upgrade that you’ll be able to get. It dealers shows a bunch of stuff, including what appears to be long travel D S S V shocks and from the factory. God, I love this. GM is buying up all the world’s 35 inch tires ’cause they’re putting 30 fives on everything. Wow. You’ll be able to get the brand new Chevy Colorado zero two bison with 30 fives. That’s cool. And it looks good on And it looks good too. I know we’ve kind of been guessing that that was probably the case based off of spy photos. But some photos of the tires up close and that’s over today’s Z twos 31 inch tires.

Holman (1h 40m 18s):

So it’s pretty massive. That’s jump up. That’s a big, yeah, that’s a big leap. Basically they, they end up being Goodyear Wrangler Territories with 3 15 70 17, which I believe is the same size tire on the Raptor for example. So it’s on a mid-size truck. It looks absolutely phenomenal And it’s, it’s meaty dude. Gotta like it. That’s what she said. Hey lighting. Did you hear what?

Lightning (1h 40m 45s):


Holman (1h 40m 45s):

Nope. Didn’t hear. Norway loves EVs. So for sending them the F one 50 Lightning, will you be going to Norway soon? Ante up. I’m there one-way ticket and I’m there also. I mean I’m there to support you going is what I meant. Fine. I’ll stay for a while. Hey lighting, did you hear? No. Nope. The mid-size truck sales for Q one of 2023, which is January through March. Guess what the number one selling mid-size truck is number one selling mid-size truck Tecoma 53,583 Solds in the first quarter. Dang. The second bestselling truck in the mid-size category.

Holman (1h 41m 28s):

Ford Ranger. If you don’t combine the General Motors vehicles, oh, GM is the Nissan frontier. Oh. At 16,926 followed by the Jeep Gladiator at 13,575. The Chevy Colorado at 13,256. The Honda Ridge line at 12,918 the Ford Ranger at 11,500 in the G M C Canyon at 5,160. Which means if you combine the canyon in Colorado, GM gets 18,416. That puts ’em in second place. But I don’t think they should be done that way. No different dealers, different styling. Not the same truck even though it’s the same truck.

Holman (1h 42m 8s):

True. Dad go go Nissan number two. Woo woo. Hey lighting. Did you hear? Nope. Didn’t hear the small Ram pickup truck that has been seen testing might actually be Ram’s new small truck for South America. Will that truck come here? Dunno it just, it’s not news. It might be news if they, if there’s a mid-size Ram. When was the last time we had a mid-size Ram that wasn a Dakota? Yeah. Long time ago. There might be one now I What if Ram wants to get in the game? That bad? I mean in South America they do. And if they’re, I mean here styling it in conjunction with the us I mean maybe just say I, I wonder if bringing over mid-size Rams would cannibalize the full-size Rams.

Holman (1h 43m 1s):

Not at all. To the customer. Absolutely. Okay. And Because We have so many damn email from you guys. Truck show podcast@gmail.com We’re gonna do a speed round.

2 (1h 43m 11s):

You email? Yeah, I email Do it. We email. That’s right. Everybody email type it up. You email proofread. I email send it. We email. Click it. Everybody emails. You’re gonna have to divvy up the email ’cause I don’t have any over here. I know you don’t.

Holman (1h 43m 32s):

They’re sitting on the printer over there. I can’t. That is by design. Lightning gets nothing all the time. Oh, oh, oh All. right. I was just gonna run through a couple Frontier Spottings really quick just because well freaking a, you guys set like 50 of them this week and I’m outta stickers and lightning’s outta stickers, which is hilarious. So I, I gotta dip into a Holman

Lightning (1h 43m 51s):

Stash. So when I first got the stickers, I wanna shout out to my buddy Eric at nameplate. They make stickers for Quicksilver O’Neil, rusty Stuy Truck Show podcast. that wasn say all those top names. Those high quality stickers made ’em for us.

Holman (1h 44m 4s):

So this one’s from Evan Andrews says Frontier spotting. He says Lighting Holman spotted this frontier while cruising in my 1960 international Harvester flatbed truck. I was trying to speed up but he was much faster than me. Love the podcast. Listen to it every week and it makes my commute much more enjoyable. I am currently building a 76 scout to Wheel here in Florida. What are your thoughts on scout motors? All electric Scouts keep up the great work. Five stars as always.

10 (1h 44m 29s):

Five star review. Five stars.

Lightning (1h 44m 32s):


Holman (1h 44m 32s):

Cool. So what he’s talking about is the, the new all electric VW spinoff because they own the scout name of bringing back the international scout as an ev. And I mean it’s all vaporware until you see it.

Lightning (1h 44m 43s):

I’m kind of excited about it. That’d be cool. Gotta be honest. That’d be

Holman (1h 44m 46s):

Cool. Linex of West Phoenix sends us this one. Oh,

Lightning (1h 44m 49s):

These are my boys by the way. These are the guys that

Holman (1h 44m 52s):

And lady.

Lightning (1h 44m 52s):

Oh and lady, okay. They are my, my kids. My peeps. Yep. This is

Holman (1h 44m 56s):

My peeps. Matt Bingham. I believe at some point, at one point his wife was asking if we could get out there when the shop opened, but the owner said no parties or something like that.

Lightning (1h 45m 5s):

So I’ve been talking to them. They actually beat me to putting a an E g R roll track on their truck. Nice. Had oh nice. One on a raptor and I think on a gladiator. And I was asking ’em questions before I put it on and he had some great advice. Awesome. And that wasn So they’re, they’re my peeps for sure. We gotta get out there at some point. So

Holman (1h 45m 21s):

Matt Wright says, dear light saber and gun holster. See I spotted this frontier as it parked right in front of me while listening to The Truck Show Podcast. The added bonus for me is this guy needed a bedliner and agreed to make an appointment with me. So I’d like to offer a twist to your frontier. Spotting any frontier spotted without a bedliner should contact us at Linex of West Phoenix and we’d be happy to provide them with our product. I too will send our custom stickers to the submitter of the photo. I really enjoy the show from a guy who started driving a 79 Chevy love truck and is now driving a Gen three raptor with a 2016 JK as an option B. I have learned so much from your show. You are the hairy to my Cole obviously.

Holman (1h 46m 2s):

What days of Thunder reference? I guess so. Cold trickle. Whenever I’m listening to the show, I feel like I’m the bar scene when Cole tells Harry has no idea what he’s talking about because he admits he doesn’t know much about cars. But I carry on anyway and learn something from each episode. Below is the link. Now

11 (1h 46m 15s):

You wanna run right on the ragged edge all the damn time. You gotta tell us what’s going on with the car.

12 (1h 46m 21s):

Well you just want to change the way I drive

11 (1h 46m 23s):

It. Maybe. Well

12 (1h 46m 24s):

Maybe you could set up the car so I don’t have to change.

11 (1h 46m 27s):

Well I’d be happy to. You just tell me how Well,

12 (1h 46m 30s):

What do you wanna know?

11 (1h 46m 31s):

Well hell Cole, you’re the driver. You thinks she’s running a loose, a tight. Tell us we give a turn here, take some wedge out there, we’ll win some races. That’s all there is to it.

12 (1h 46m 40s):

I can’t do that.

11 (1h 46m 41s):

Well why the hell not?

12 (1h 46m 43s):

’cause don don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

Holman (1h 46m 45s):

And five stars, God bless. That’s Matt Bingham from Linx of West Phoenix. So Matt and his wife are great. They’ve been listening to the show for a long time. So if you guys are in the Arizona area somewhere and you’re looking for some linex, go hit up Matt. Tell him The Truck. Show Podcast sent you got this one from Hunter Dieter says, Hey guys spotted this frontier by office this morning and had to grab a pick. Thanks for the great show. And that’s Hunter Dieter. He says, if you still have some, I’d love some T S P stickers for my boys.

Lightning (1h 47m 11s):

I got you guys

Holman (1h 47m 12s):

All, right? I got this one from Brandon says, Hey guys, I’ve been trying to get a picture of a frontier since you started your sticker giveaway. I occasionally see one driving by when I’m stopped at a stop sign. that wasn never quick enough to snap a picture until today. As I was leaving my driveway this morning, headed to work one drove by. I knew that I had only a few miles before they had to stop at a stop sign and I was able to catch up with them and snap this picture before they took off. Love the show. I’ve been a listener since the beginning. Keep up the good work and monitor those parameters. No don don’t think so. Master

13 (1h 47m 40s):

Monitor. Key engine parameters.

Holman (1h 47m 43s):


Lightning (1h 47m 44s):

The way, I love that we are causing anxiety with drivers that are like, oh front,

Holman (1h 47m 47s):

You have to get it. That’s from Brandon Wrench. Thanks Brandon. We, we appreciate you All. right? We’ve got many more of those but we’ll save ’em for the next episode ’cause we’ve got actually got some real emails here. And

Lightning (1h 47m 59s):

By the way, I am tapping into a Holman stash of stickers and I will continue to send those and I’ve ordered another 500 more. So how about that? And this one’s from rb, air Lightning of Banks. Number one, I’d like to have a pedal monster on my Ram. Can the ID dash product display be directed onto the Ram’s 12 inch screen or the driver information screen in the instrument cluster rather than having to mount the separate round readout if not available now, will routing the ID dash output through the factory screen ever be possible with the ID dash? Number two, I work in biomedical, I’ve become more used to I S O units, millimeter Celsius, Newtons, et cetera. Then us customary units. Can the ID dash units be set to either US or metric units?

Lightning (1h 48m 43s):

Please don’t have a cow over this next question, but it’s difficult enough to be working in an industry that uses I S O Metric units while living in the us which still clings to the antiquated inconsistent system of British units. Anyhow. Can ID dash units be customized such that for example, all temperatures read out in Celsius while pressures read out in P S I? No biggie. If not PA is fine for pressures, but the Pascal for pressure is an I S O unit I don’t regularly use. So my brain still thinks the pressure’s in P S I. Number three, I’d love to have a pedal monster to reduce the laggy throttle response inherent in the Ram eco Diesel. I know the pedal monster is car approved and all other good things about it. But how’s the pedal monster viewed by Ram service folk?

Lightning (1h 49m 25s):

That’s the million dollar question. I’ve got a Mopar service warranty eight years, 125,000 miles and I don’t really wanna violate it. Assuming the worst case scenario that Ram service Rider take a dimm view of any aftermarket attachments. If I just unplug and remove the pedal monster before the truck goes in for service, can Ram detect the pedal Monster was previously installed? Love to hear those answers, Ray. So first Gray, the ID dash cannot project to your Rams d I c And it probably won’t anytime soon. ’cause we want people staring at the ID dash itself and not bearing it in a center console or in a glove box only to project its data elsewhere.

Lightning (1h 50m 6s):

So that’s probably not gonna happen. Sorry. Yes, you can select which unit types you want. We have thousands of global customers that use the i dash in metric and I s o units. You just go into the menu settings and then units. And regarding the warranties, STIs is no different than GM and Ford, although legally they have to prove the aftermarket device caused the problem Before they can deny your warranty. We find that they often kill warranties just for having something present in your vehicle. For this reason, we recommend removing the device before service visits. And this goes for any electronics, not just ours, unless of course you know the dealer and they’re cool with aftermarket accessories and they’ll just look the other way. If you remove the derringer pedal monster ID dash any of the electronics that Banks offers, they are invisible.

Lightning (1h 50m 50s):

Their scan tools cannot see it after that wasn removed period. No ands ifs or buts about it. Hope this helps.

Holman (1h 50m 57s):

Alright, got one here from Ron Williams. Says, name my Maverick, this is Ron with the O B S F two 50 and camper from the Goffs meetup. Don’t worry, I still have and am keeping the 97, but I’m not sure you’ll wanna associate with me anymore as I now have a hybrid maverick as a daily commuter. L O l. Hey, two days in and I’m getting 34 miles per gallon. I ain’t complaining I, I’ve got no problem with that. I need your help deciding on a personalized plate. So far I have not a truck or chocolate. What do you think? Any other ideas? Thanks. Oh and a Finnegan. Five stars. Well

Lightning (1h 51m 26s):

We don’t have a Finnegan. Five stars. We have a Finnegan. Yeah buddy. Yeah buddy. That’s about it.

Holman (1h 51m 31s):

And I’ll have to think about that. How about not Goose?

Lightning (1h 51m 36s):

Not Goose.

Holman (1h 51m 37s):

Come on. That’s solid. Yeah. Okay. Just came up with that All, right? Or not Iceman?

Lightning (1h 51m 42s):

No, I like not Goose or

Holman (1h 51m 45s):

The sequel.

Lightning (1h 51m 47s):

I, that’s just a shirt. Not Goose.

Holman (1h 51m 49s):

Not I think not Goose as a license plate would be awesome on a Maverick. That’s true. I’m going with not Goose.

Lightning (1h 51m 53s):

Yeah, not Goose. Not Goose.

Holman (1h 51m 55s):

There you go. Ron. Oh, is

Lightning (1h 51m 56s):

It n O T G U S e

Holman (1h 51m 58s):

Whatever. Or N T G O O

Lightning (1h 52m 1s):

S E I guess. No, it’d be N O T G O O Ss.

Holman (1h 52m 5s):

It could be whatever you want. Sure. You’re gonna have to play with the license plate configure, but just

Lightning (1h 52m 9s):

Don’t do N O T G U S S. It’s like who’s Guss? And that’s one’s from Trevor Nero. Subject line is Jesus Lightning. Okay, he just says one hour, 17 minutes and 10 seconds. I love it when the guy comes from behind. Oh great. Good thing you guys keep it PG around there. Of

Holman (1h 52m 33s):

Course. Thank you. Sweet Trevor. Got this one. Hey

Lightning (1h 52m 37s):

By the way, Trevor, get your mind outta the gutter. So mine can float by. It’s not a boat race. You know,

Holman (1h 52m 42s):

This one’s from Hayden Tree says, dear l n h, Holman, I need to apologize you were right

Lightning (1h 52m 50s):


Holman (1h 52m 51s):

In-N-Out fries are good if you get them. Well done. Extra salt and animal style. I’m a big enough of a man to admit when I’m wrong. Hopefully now I’m off the do not send a sticker list too. On that note, I’ve noticed this sneak Nissan on campus and after looking at it a little closer, the little truck starting to grow on me sincerely Hayden. And that goes in the frontier spotting pile and also the big man with the apology pile. Mm,

Lightning (1h 53m 14s):

We that’s not a big pile. It’s, it’s very

Holman (1h 53m 15s):


Lightning (1h 53m 17s):

It’s like two emails you take it. This one’s from Greg Mann from Rock Hill, South Carolina sent this email to Holman a few weeks back, but he didn’t respond. Guess it’s true. Lightning. He doesn’t check his email. What? No, no biggie though. I know both of you have been super busy lately. A little bit. So one of my daily drivers is a 97 Ram 1,504 by four that needs new tires. I currently have Yokohama Geo Landers on it and it’s time for a new set of shoes. I know Toyota’s one of your favorites, but I just don’t know if I need all that tire. I probably put 11,000 miles on the truck a year and I go off-roading very little. I’m an avid hunter. So October through December, it’s off-roading almost every weekend.

Lightning (1h 53m 57s):

Nothing really serious. Just muddy roads and sometimes making my own roads. I don’t mind paying the extra money for a tire that is going to last. What are your suggestions? Glad y’all decided to continue with the show after MotorTrend said goodbye. I look forward to the show every Monday. Finnegan? Yeah buddy. Yeah, buddy. Oh two in one segment. I don don’t know.

Holman (1h 54m 18s):

There’s, for somebody who’s like that, there’s a bunch of good tires out there. There’s the, the Falcon Ruby track, which is a good all-terrain. That’s more So. we saying

Lightning (1h 54m 26s):

Everything other than toil because he sounds like he doesn’t wanna spend the money on toils because

Holman (1h 54m 30s):

No, I’m, I’m gonna throw out a bunch of stuff. Okay, so again, Falcon Ruby track, which is, you know, not as aggressive as, or probably not as hardcore, if you will, as a Falcon Wild Peak. A T three great tire, by the way. Either one of those actually would be fine. Toyo, open Country RT Trail, which is a little bit less aggressive than the rt. And if you don’t wanna open country a T three also, or open country three BF Goodrich, all-terrain. K o two. Also a solid, a solid choicer daily.

Lightning (1h 55m 0s):

That is the k o two kind of a pricey tire though.

Holman (1h 55m 2s):

I mean, yeah, if they’re all, I think all tires are pricey these days.

Lightning (1h 55m 6s):

I guess they, they’re all, I mean, look, if, if you in a, what, a 35? Somewhere around there, you’re looking at 400 bucks tire, right? Yeah,

Holman (1h 55m 11s):

Probably something like that. Yeah. Yep. The other one you might consider is the milestone Patagonia at, there’s, there’s another tire I would look at the, at category on the less aggressive at something enough where it’s durable has a good sidewall. Preferably three plys or at least a two ply with a tread cap that wraps around halfway down the sidewall to prevent punctures. ’cause I think that’ll be the biggest issue. And you know, I would, again, look for those ATSs. I think that’s the right place to be. And they’ll give you good road manners, but be capable enough Offroad for you.

Lightning (1h 55m 41s):

But if he’s gotta choose one, he’s gotta choose what is the, the Holman pick ’cause the Lightning pick is the, the Toyo RT Trails. What is the Holman pick?

Holman (1h 55m 50s):

I just gave you the ones. I like all those tires. But

Lightning (1h 55m 52s):

You ca you have to say one. He’s, I I don’t have to one. He’s gonna buy the tire. You say right now

Holman (1h 55m 55s):

Pressure’s on. No, the heat

Lightning (1h 55m 57s):

Is on.

Holman (1h 55m 60s):

Only he knows his use case.

Lightning (1h 56m 2s):

He just described his use case to you. You,

Holman (1h 56m 4s):

You, I just B f g Toyo

Lightning (1h 56m 6s):

Falcon. No, I want you to, so it’s the best deal. Whatever he finds the best deal. Absolute deal on, absolute on on

Holman (1h 56m 11s):

The T. You can’t, you can’t go wrong on any of those things. All right. This one’s from Nick Lawn says lighting and Holdman Nick again, just listening through some of the older episodes, since I think you guys said they may not be available for much longer. Did we say that?

Lightning (1h 56m 23s):

We did

Holman (1h 56m 24s):

Say that. I think you should heeded that advice. Hopefully you guys will be able to find a way to archive them. It’s fun to hear comments while knowing the future. Back in Lightning’s truck list days, episode 91 on October 20th, 2019 at one hour, 53 minutes and 13 seconds in Lightning says quote unquote, I want that new Ram with the Hellcat engine. Pretty cool. Anyway, keep the suckage down and the stars at five. And remember, everything matters lower

Lightning (1h 56m 48s):

Than the Suckage. Thanks

14 (1h 56m 49s):

For watching. And remember, everything matters.

Holman (1h 56m 53s):

Pss. I am the guy who wants quote unquote, this is lighting speaking on a shirt sent from Dirty Jersey.

Lightning (1h 57m 1s):

Oh man. I’m all about Dirty Jersey. Hey, what do you think about me going to Atlantic City Truck meet and doing a little reporting?

Holman (1h 57m 8s):

I, because

Lightning (1h 57m 8s):

Atlantic City kind of scares me. It’s dirty.

Holman (1h 57m 10s):

Think that is, that is dirty Jersey, by the way. I think you should go there.

Lightning (1h 57m 16s):

It’s on like an Air Force base.

Holman (1h 57m 18s):

I mean, then that sounds even more awesome,

Lightning (1h 57m 21s):

Except it’s an abandoned Air Force base

Holman (1h 57m 24s):

Double. Awesome. Okay, speaking of a dirty jersey, why don’t you read that email from our buddy Tim Allen. Okay.

Lightning (1h 57m 30s):

So he says hello from your favorite state. Saw this well, driving downtown Newark for a show. Certainly. Oh God, he’s driving. He’s downtown Newark. Talk about hell on earth.

Holman (1h 57m 41s):

I don’t think he’s that

Lightning (1h 57m 42s):

Bad. He is the butthole of America.

Holman (1h 57m 44s):

No it’s not. That’s Chicago. I think so.

Lightning (1h 57m 49s):

So this is the taint area.

Holman (1h 57m 51s):

Wow. You just way to just take swaths of population and make them hate us.

Lightning (1h 57m 57s):

Listen, my father,

Holman (1h 57m 58s):

Stop being pop ass. My

Lightning (1h 57m 59s):

Father is from New Jersey, so I feel like I say that’s, I spent every Christmas for like the first 10 years of my life in New Jersey.

Holman (1h 58m 5s):

Nobody caress. Just keep reading.

Lightning (1h 58m 7s):

So certainly thought that wasn worth capturing and sharing with you. Take a really close look. He says the last picture’s just to show that it’s not completely terrible here. I like to quiet places in New Jersey much better where there aren’t so many people. Anyway, fun. Friday night. Fine. Happy weekend regards. Tim Allen. Now the photos are,

Holman (1h 58m 28s):

It’s a, it’s a brick. It’s a beautiful sunny

Lightning (1h 58m 30s):

Day, by the way. It’s a brick building. And as I zoom into the side of the brick building,

Holman (1h 58m 35s):

It’s clearly an old mural that used to be

Lightning (1h 58m 37s):

On it. Yeah, you can see that the top part is gone. But the, the word, the text at the bottom, there’s probably a 50 foot tall mural and the bottom says Nissan Motor Co Limited, Tokyo, Japan.

Holman (1h 58m 49s):

So I wonder if that must’ve been like an old Nissan dealer.

Lightning (1h 58m 51s):

I would assume so.

Holman (1h 58m 52s):

That’s pretty cool. Yeah,

Lightning (1h 58m 53s):

That’s very cool.

Holman (1h 58m 54s):

I like that All. right? I got one last one before we, we wrap it up for this episode of the Truck Show podcast. And just, this came on my Instagram as a DMM from Ja Cuomo. That’s, that’s all I got. Anyway, it says Sean. I had a shot question for you since you are the guru. I just got a 2016 Colorado four by four with the durmax in it. I absolutely love that truck. And the mileage is amazing. Amazing is one you get a pedal monster on it. He said I was wanting to swap the shocks out for Bill Steins, but didn’t know which ones to go with. I have the 51 hundreds on my Durmax dually and they are amazing. I didn’t know if I should go with the 4,600 or the 51 hundreds on my baby dmax. What are your thoughts? it just to commute right now. So I’m really just looking for ride quality.

Holman (1h 59m 34s):

Well, the 46 hundreds are the yellow shocks that are direct replacement. So that’s gonna go right in the same spot. The 51 hundreds typically have a little bit more travel. It’s a bigger piston size and it’s more performance oriented shock for me, daily driver that might occasionally see a rough road. I’m absolutely gonna tell you, go get the 51 hundreds. That’s, that’s the shock to get. It’s their bread and butter shock. And I think they’re, they’re fantastic. So my recommendation, minimum 51 hundreds and you can go from there.

Lightning (2h 0m 4s):

Truck show podcast@gmail.com. That is truck show podcast@gmail.com. Send your frontier spotting to it or send us a note to read on the air. We’ll be happy to do it.

2 (2h 0m 15s):

The truck show. The truck show. The truck show.

Holman (2h 0m 22s):

He’s at LBC Lightning. I’m at Sean p Coleman and we are at Truck Show Podcast. You can reach us at truck show podcast@gmail.com or Holman at truck show podcast.com or Lightning at truck show podcast.com. And we want to hear from you on the five star hotline. 6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5.

Lightning (2h 0m 39s):

And by the way, I’m still hooking a brother up. If you hit at LBC Lightning and you’re looking for some Banks parts at the hook of brother up price, I will do that. And it’s only through the, at LBC Lightning on Instagram. So Gail doesn’t find out,

Holman (2h 0m 57s):

Thank God he trusts us with his money for the show and doesn’t

Lightning (2h 1m 0s):

I’m should listen to it. I’m just saying

Holman (2h 1m 3s):

Feel how cold that thing is blowing right now. I

Lightning (2h 1m 5s):

Was wondering why I was shivering and it’s your mini split. Do

Holman (2h 1m 8s):

I have it set at 71? It feels like we could hang meat in here right now.

Lightning (2h 1m 12s):

Well, I am. I am hanging meat in here, by

Holman (2h 1m 14s):

The way. No, you’re you’re hiding meat right now. All. right? That’s how you’re gonna end the show. Huh?

Lightning (2h 1m 21s):

I feel like I’m just out.

Holman (2h 1m 23s):

Ah, this isn’t in your own defense, your worst effort. So

Lightning (2h 1m 29s):

No, this is, I’m,

Holman (2h 1m 30s):

I’m okay. That’s what I’m saying. This isn’t, this isn’t your worst effort

Lightning (2h 1m 33s):

I’ve had So listen, listen, I’m, I’m barely with it. The brain cells are fading fast, my friends. And sometimes I’ll put in a decent show. Yeah. I would say nine outta 10 shows the suckage meter. The Lightning suckage meter is high. Really high. It’s like, it’s in the red. It’s like the view meter’s just like binging. Bing, bing, bing, bing off the little right post, you know the, there’s a left post at zero and then infinity is on the right and the red and I’m just like bouncing off

Holman (2h 1m 59s):

The infin. No you’re not. Nope. You’re barreling over. You went right past Infiniti and you’re starting to touch the other side of the gauge All.

Lightning (2h 2m 5s):

Right. So I did the did the little pin break. Yeah. I bent, I busted it. Oh, I bent it over so I can pass right by.

Holman (2h 2m 10s):

It’s you think it’s a a, a lightning’s a alive meter. It’s actually a suckage meter. Oh yeah. And you just, you, you pegged infinity and you blew right past it. Listen,

Lightning (2h 2m 18s):

So, we didn’t talk about my chiropractor. Oh dude.

Holman (2h 2m 20s):

You know what happened with your chiropractor because so, so yesterday you looked like an old man who was about to die.

Lightning (2h 2m 24s):

I almost went to c v s to buy a fricking cane. Dude, you literally,

Holman (2h 2m 27s):

You, you kept bending over and you’re like,

Lightning (2h 2m 30s):


Holman (2h 2m 30s):

When I stand up it’s

Lightning (2h 2m 32s):

Because I, my back cracks, dude. I sit all damn day. Well

Holman (2h 2m 36s):

Start walking, dude. And two,

Lightning (2h 2m 37s):

Two weeks ago, we’re supposed to get standup desks at work. Right. Dude,

Holman (2h 2m 40s):


Lightning (2h 2m 40s):

Every other department, but other than marketing has standup desks. But our like, and he’s like,

Holman (2h 2m 44s):

Dude, you got a beer belly in your legs. Okay. Like exercise those things.

Lightning (2h 2m 47s):

Like, it’s funny because like every part except my middle is in decent shape. I would

Holman (2h 2m 52s):

Disagree with that.

Lightning (2h 2m 52s):

Arms and legs are in decent shape.

Holman (2h 2m 54s):

You skipped leg day every day though. They’re

Lightning (2h 2m 56s):

Okay. Okay. They’re in decent shape. So I don don’t know. One day I stood up and I just, is that

Holman (2h 3m 1s):

Because you had those leg implants put in to make it looks like you have muscles?

Lightning (2h 3m 4s):

No, I did not. Okay. Didn didn’t do the Kim k Yeah. The

Holman (2h 3m 7s):

Kim implant,

Lightning (2h 3m 8s):

Whatever. So I stood up and all of a sudden I, I felt like my hips were out of outta whack. Like one was higher than the other. Yeah. And so I feel like I had a, what’s it called?

Holman (2h 3m 18s):

Dysplasia? Like, like an old German shepherd?

Lightning (2h 3m 21s):

No, not dysplasia. No

Holman (2h 3m 22s):

Dysplasia. Yeah. You’re just,

Lightning (2h 3m 23s):

No, what’s the thing? Sciatica, right? that wasn sciatica where you’re scia nervous getting squished.

Holman (2h 3m 27s):


Lightning (2h 3m 27s):

Get that. I felt that right. Like that all the time. Right. Leg was just ain’t working. I

Holman (2h 3m 31s):

Just, I power through it.

Lightning (2h 3m 32s):

And so the next day it wasn’t as bad. Then I got better and then, then it got worse again. All of a sudden, in all

Holman (2h 3m 37s):

Fairness, I don’t know if it’s sciatica or pinch nerve, but one of ’em on my right side. No, no. Boy. No.

Lightning (2h 3m 41s):

I don’t, I don don’t know. But here’s, so I’m going to check out, let’s see.

Holman (2h 3m 44s):

I need a listener in Southern California that can, that will offer their services for truck show podcast stickers.

Lightning (2h 3m 49s):

Watch this. hold on. I I I’m gonna All

Holman (2h 3m 51s):

Right? This is lighting standing up. He’s gonna,

Lightning (2h 3m 52s):

No, listen, I’m gonna bend over and touch my toes. I actually can do that. Yeah. Most, a lot of guys my age can’t. Right. But I can

Holman (2h 3m 58s):

With your knees bent.

Lightning (2h 3m 59s):

No, no. My watch, my knees are gonna stay straight. Okay. But I, I want you to listen to my back. It’s a trip. All. right. Here we go. I wanna see if it works. It does it almost every time. Hang tight

Holman (2h 4m 8s):

Almost every time. Lemme see if you, it’s like my elbow when I broke it. I gotta move the chair. hold on. It clicks. When do pushups now? Yeah. Yeah.

Lightning (2h 4m 13s):

Well, here we go. Oh, could you hear it or

Holman (2h 4m 19s):

Not? No. No. Damn. You hit the, you hit the mic with your back. Yeah.

Lightning (2h 4m 21s):

Okay. You couldn’t So when I bend over, my back goes,

Holman (2h 4m 25s):

Okay. Oh, so what did your car say? All the pro

Lightning (2h 4m 27s):

Separate. So he twisted me all up into a pretzel. Yeah. And I feel, and

Holman (2h 4m 31s):

Then he spun and he twist, he did one of these

Lightning (2h 4m 33s):

Hugs and then he went from my head, the head. And I’m like, no. I go, my head’s fine.

Holman (2h 4m 36s):

No dude, the neck is fine. Dude. Dude, you gotta

Lightning (2h 4m 37s):

Do it. I was like, the neck’s fine. So here’s

Holman (2h 4m 39s):

What sucks mom. And he

Lightning (2h 4m 40s):

Takes, he, he does the thing you’ve seen before. Yeah. He takes my head and, and I go and I, and I, and I think to myself,

Holman (2h 4m 46s):

This is how it ends.

Lightning (2h 4m 47s):

This. Oh my god, I hate this so much. Oh, I love it. I

Holman (2h 4m 50s):

Hate it.

Lightning (2h 4m 50s):

I hate it. I hate it.

Holman (2h 4m 51s):

I love it. My chiropractor retired, but he retired at like 55, so I got no one to go to now. Good. So I’m all jack up.

Lightning (2h 4m 58s):

This guy’s good. This guy’s good. Like I, he’s, yeah, but

Holman (2h 4m 60s):

What’s his, what’s his copay?

Lightning (2h 5m 2s):

I, I don’t, I don’t know. Yeah. I’m, I haven’t paid my deductible yet, so

Holman (2h 5m 5s):

I’m poor right now. So,

Lightning (2h 5m 6s):

So listen, he takes my head and I’m like, I’m about to be in a car accident. I’m gonna die like here. This is how I’m gonna go. I’m a chiropractor’s table. Yeah. And he does that damn thing. Yeah. That everyone hates

Holman (2h 5m 16s):

It feels amazing. And he

Lightning (2h 5m 17s):


Holman (2h 5m 19s):


Lightning (2h 5m 20s):

And then he does it. There’s a

Holman (2h 5m 21s):

Yeah. And

Lightning (2h 5m 22s):

It just, God,

Holman (2h 5m 23s):


Lightning (2h 5m 23s):

Love that. What’s happening in my neck? Neck? That’s awful.

Holman (2h 5m 26s):

I wish somebody could do that to me. I

Lightning (2h 5m 27s):

Feel a little better. Yeah. But damn. Is that scary? That’s not scary. Why? Yes it is.

Holman (2h 5m 31s):

Oh, I love it. It’s

Lightning (2h 5m 32s):

Popping in your neck.

Holman (2h 5m 33s):

I look, I look forward. I’m like, please. But the problem is, is my back’s so tight. Like, like normal people, my friends are like, do me the bear hug or trying to do it that way or nothing happens. My kids walk on my back. Nothing. I need to go back to the Cairo. But my dude retired and there

Lightning (2h 5m 47s):

Are other chiropractors.

Holman (2h 5m 48s):

Here’s the thing is I hooked up his truck

Lightning (2h 5m 51s):


Holman (2h 5m 51s):

Twice. Like I’m tired. And Ahoe cover to better ugly,

Lightning (2h 5m 54s):

Doesn’t matter. He’s retired.

Holman (2h 5m 55s):

No, no. But here’s the deal. He always waived my copay. Ah. And that deal’s done now. Yeah. Yeah.

Lightning (2h 6m 2s):

Well look, you gotta start

Holman (2h 6m 3s):


Lightning (2h 6m 4s):

I know. Hook, hook someone else up. I

Holman (2h 6m 5s):

Got I lightning’s outta stickers. I got some, if you got a chiropractic office, I will tell me where you are and I’ll, instead of sending you the bat signal, I’ll slap a truck show podcast sticker on your front door of your office. So, you know, I’ve, I’ve been

Lightning (2h 6m 17s):

There. Nice. I told this dude, this guy’s like, ah, this doctor had to be 26 young dude. And

Holman (2h 6m 25s):

You’re like, how many people have you turned into a, how many

Lightning (2h 6m 27s):

People have you crippled? Yeah. Hopefully not many kicking. I I go, dude, I’m going to Coachella and I’m about to walk 20 miles in a weekend. Yeah. I said, I need whatever you can do, do it now, please. And he goes, I got you.

Holman (2h 6m 41s):

I like that. I got you.

Lightning (2h 6m 42s):

Yep. And he twisted me all up and I feel better. Like I’m not, I’m, I was walking straight. Right. He he did, he took x-rays, did all that stuff. And I feel a little better. Knock on wood. I I’ll feel good tomorrow. We’ll see

Holman (2h 6m 54s):

All. right. Well, so good luck.

Lightning (2h 6m 56s):

And you would also didn’t get a chance to talk about the, the 24 Duramax. Oh. I wanted to tell you all the news stuff that’s preventing us from coming out with parts. But

Holman (2h 7m 3s):

You’re in the middle of that still, right? Yes. So next episode, I’m actually gonna write it. Episode 17. Yes. We’ve got Willwood and we have Durmax. It’s right here. I’m writing it. So, we don’t forget. Got it. All. right. Because all you people who are interested in 24 durmax and you want parts, you are gonna be loving this next story. Think, think GM for those lucky stars.

Lightning (2h 7m 26s):


Holman (2h 7m 26s):

All. right. If you want a company that loves you as an enthusiast and makes a great, simple, rugged, reliable truck, then go check out our friends over at Nissan. Head over to Nissan usa.com where you can build and price your frontier. Your Titan, your Titan Xd. Of course the Titans have the industry’s best five year, 100,000 mile warranty. And I gotta tell you, a lot of trucks are quiet once you get up into their luxury models. That darn frontier is just about as quiet as the big Xd with laminated glass. And do road tripping either of those. ’cause I’ve spent time in both of those in the last couple months. Could you hear

Lightning (2h 8m 1s):

So nice? Oh, I gotta ask you, could you hear your stomach gurgle after the burrito?

Holman (2h 8m 6s):

No. No. ’cause I had the Fender audio system on 12.

Lightning (2h 8m 9s):

Okay, good

Holman (2h 8m 9s):

Answer. Yeah, exactly. But I’ll tell you my back feels pretty good after the zero gravity seats. Gotta hand it to ’em.

Lightning (2h 8m 15s):

Not as good as a massage though.

Holman (2h 8m 16s):

No, not. Or a chiropractor for that matter. Yeah. Yeah. See some of these manufacturers, they have the, the, the air bladders and they’ve got just the, it just pulses. A lot of the, they, they hurt, they call a massage and it’s not, it just air turning under your I need the chiropractic seat where you sit in it and it grips your shoulders and your neck around the seat. The pulls you the pole. Yeah. And you like, like launch it when you land, everything goes. Oh, I’d be, so that sounds ama All,

Lightning (2h 8m 39s):

Right? So Nissan we’re tasking you. Yeah. With creating a chiropractic

Holman (2h 8m 42s):

Seat. Yeah, exactly. The next generation. Your gravity,

Lightning (2h 8m 45s):

The zero gravity chiropractic seat.

Holman (2h 8m 47s):

Dude, you would own it. Yeah. Could you imagine if you never had to see a chiropractor because your Nissan could adjust your back while you drive. Dude, it, it has these,

Lightning (2h 8m 53s):

It reaches around you and holds your shoulders in with like, like hands.

Holman (2h 8m 57s):

But it’s No, no, no. It’s the mom arm when you break, like in case somebody, you know, cuts you off. Oh yeah. The seat grabs you and you’re like, oh, I’m in.

Lightning (2h 9m 3s):

Why do moms think that they can stop you? Yeah. I mean, thousands of pounds of mass of force

Holman (2h 9m 9s):

Going forward. Hey man, speak for yourself. Yeah.

Lightning (2h 9m 11s):

If you wanna check out the brand new Nissan, the Nissan titan or the frontier, go down to your local Nissan dealer. And when you’re looking to spruce up your old truck, whether you have a six two, a six five, a six oh, a six, seven, a six six, any of the diesels, new or old, head over to Banks power.com, type in your year, make and model and grab the performance products to make that slug fast.

Holman (2h 9m 32s):

And for those of you who suffering from blown shock syndrome, which we like to call B S Ss. So if your truck has a, a bad case of the BSS and you’re leaking oil and your shock’s no longer damp, but your driveway is, then you want to head over to bill Bilstein us.com. You need, you

Lightning (2h 9m 46s):

Need to write that down. Is that

Holman (2h 9m 47s):

A T-shirt too? Yeah. Or just a slogan for Bill Bilstein.

Lightning (2h 9m 50s):

So can you say it again?

Holman (2h 9m 51s):

If your shocks don’t damp, but your driveway is

Lightning (2h 9m 54s):

No, that’s not what you said.

Holman (2h 9m 55s):

Oh damn it.

Lightning (2h 9m 56s):

Something about if your shocks are damp and your Wait,

Holman (2h 9m 59s):

No, no, no. If your, if your shocks won’t damp, but yeah. But your driveway is ’cause all your oil leaked out and dripped all over something like Yeah. All. right. We’ll have to listen back to that. Now. This is how tired we are when we do the show. We don’t even remember what

Lightning (2h 10m 12s):

We said. Failing in real time. All, right.

Holman (2h 10m 13s):

Here we go. Go to bill Bilstein us.com, replace those leaky hydraulic cylinders of third rate oil and get yourself some really high quality bill Bilstein stuff. Whether you’re towing, whether it’s your daily driver, whether you go off road, bill Bilstein makes the shock for you every shock that they make, especially tuned to your vehicle. Of course, bill Bilstein makes shocks of different extended and collapsed length. So even if you have a lift kit and you wanna replace your old crappy white shocks on that bad boy, chances are Bill Bilstein has an application that will even upgrade your old lifted truck. So again, head over to bill Bilstein us.com. I rely on Bill Bilstein for all of my personal builds. I love the brand. And of course the lighting’s even had a chance to experience the Bill Bilstein Magic with his aluminum body bill Bilstein Blackhawk e squares on his T R X.

Lightning (2h 10m 58s):

I love him, but you can’t have ’em. Why? ’cause they don’t own A T R X.

Holman (2h 11m 3s):

Well, they might and if they do, they they

Lightning (2h 11m 5s):

Have ’em. They have them. Yeah, exactly.

Holman (2h 11m 6s):

All right. Bill Bilstein us.com for all your shock needs.

Lightning (2h 11m 10s):

Thank God this show is over so I can go home, sleep for a few hours and then head to Coachella.

Holman (2h 11m 15s):

You’d be sleeping in a shift pod and snorting the E

Lightning (2h 11m 21s):

People Don’t snort. I don’t know ecstasy. I mean, I would don Don’t think they do. I wouldn’t know why. Been outta the,

Holman (2h 11m 27s):

Been outta the game for a while. I guess so. All. right? Well, good luck at Coachella. I hope you don’t turn into a mud person. And that’s

Lightning (2h 11m 34s):

A different

Holman (2h 11m 35s):

Concert. You enjoy a lot of music. What name One person that’s playing there. That’s awesome. How

Lightning (2h 11m 42s):

About freaking Blink 180 2? How about Calvin Harris? How about Black Pink? How about Bad Bunny? How about gorillas? How about Chemical Brothers? How about Blondie? How about Becky G? How about Metro Booming? How about Young Blood? How about The? Truck Show Podcast is a production of Truck famous l l c. This podcast was created by Sean Holman and Jay Tillis with production elements by DJ Omar Khan. If you like what you’ve heard, please open your Apple podcast or Spotify app and give us a five star rating. And if you’re a fan, there’s no better way to show your support than by patronizing our sponsors. Some vehicles may have been harmed during the making of this podcast.