Shane Casad and Junior Africa from Bilstein stops by the studio for a lively discussion about dampers with the guys. This in-person conversation is proudly brought to you by Nissan, in collaboration with Banks Power, Bilstein, and onX Offroad, on The Truck Show Podcast. 




The following transcription was generated using a speech recognition software, and will contain errors. Please review the timestamp and listen to the corresponding audio for accuracy.  


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Jay “Lightning” Tilles (0s):

Holden, I’m gonna start this show off with a gift to myself. It might be appropriate for our guests. That

Sean P. Holman (5s):

Seems like it tracks

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7s):

Just saying. Yeah. Alright, let me reach down here and put this on. Here we go.

Sean P. Holman (13s):

Oh my God. That is the most, or are you doing Hi-vis on the construction site. Ah, there we go. Oh, I know. You’re either a orange traffic cone or candy corn for Halloween. Oh,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (24s):

No. don don’t like candy corn. Well,

Sean P. Holman (26s):

You’re gonna look like one. What?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (27s):

’cause my head is white popping outta this orange thing.

Sean P. Holman (29s):

All right. That is a giant four xl,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (31s):

No orange. It’s not. It fits me fine. It’s an xl. This is a bright, it does not

Sean P. Holman (35s):

Look like a XL

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (36s):

Orange bill. Bilstein gas pressure. Wait a minute shock absorbers.

Sean P. Holman (40s):

Hoodie Wait a minute. And it says Germany on it. What? Yes. That’s not an official. I bought this Bilstein

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (45s):

On eBay.

Sean P. Holman (46s):

Right. And that’s not official.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (48s):

It, it’s not official. No, but it That wasn their logo at one time. I realize it’s not their current. We

Sean P. Holman (53s):

Just had the hundred 50th anniversary and so you could see our sticker up on the sticker wall.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57s):

Yeah, that’s the current logo. The new Oh, my shirt. This is, yeah, this is kind of antiquey.

Sean P. Holman (1m 2s):

Alright, so because of our guest, you decided to get apparel off eBay. I feel like. Meanwhile, I’m wearing sanctioned apparel that I received as a gift

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 10s):

And I didn’t receive anything as a gift. And I bought this. Did

Sean P. Holman (1m 13s):

You ask 30

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 13s):

Bucks This hoodie right

Sean P. Holman (1m 15s):

Here? You ask.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 16s):

I didn’t ask. I wanted to surprise them wearing some bill set stuff that’s

Sean P. Holman (1m 20s):

Going to surprise them. I hope they’re wearing sunglasses.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 22s):

It’s so

Sean P. Holman (1m 23s):

Bright. Very much surprising.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 24s):

They had, they had army green, they had black, you know, white. All these different, and I saw that orange, the effort.

Sean P. Holman (1m 30s):

I’m sure they will too. Orange is so bright. Definitely their colors.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 34s):

I know it’s not their color, but it looks it’s good with the logo. This looks good with the logo. Come on now with the blue and the yellow and

Sean P. Holman (1m 39s):

Orange. Alright, moving right along. What is in the fricking envelope is that you’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 43s):

Not gonna keep

Sean P. Holman (1m 44s):

Stop. Is that license plate again? Oh yeah. What? hold on a second. We already went through this. Why, why are we doing this again? Here we go.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 52s):

Here we go. All right. So, as you know,

Sean P. Holman (1m 54s):

We’ve already gone through this

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1m 56s):

On, on this, this on the back of the T, R X. Not the front because don don’t like front plates. On the back of the T. R X is y m u y, half space g a s.

Sean P. Holman (2m 4s):

Yummy gas.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 4s):

Yummy gas. Which

Sean P. Holman (2m 5s):

By the way, I came up with, and everybody who sees that laughs immediately goes, That is awesome. How many people told you that’s the best plate they’ve ever seen? Well,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 13s):

Don don’t know the, there’s at least five. I don’t think they’ve said that’s the best plate they have. No, I’ve

Sean P. Holman (2m 17s):

Been, I have been standing next to you when they said that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 19s):

Okay. Well, I will say that there’s a guy

Sean P. Holman (2m 21s):

You’re trying to minimize because you think you have a better idea. So.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2m 23s):

I like the plates. I went out and got the plate and paid the, the, the extra 50 bucks to California to get the plate. So I’m rocking the Holman designed plate on the truck. However, Matt Gamble, who has been on the show, he’s a Banks engineer. He and I carpool to work sometimes he thinks that Mopar drivers are a holes and thinks it’s funny to make fun of them. As do I, even though I’m a Mopar owner. Okay. Right. He would always call Mopar drivers, bro. Pars, right? Yeah. ’cause they always wanna race. It’s like, oh, that dude Bro.

Sean P. Holman (2m 56s):

Par bro. But explained bro. That’s like a, that’s like a, a least originated in SoCal and it’s like a tall black socks, flat bill hat, tattoos, vans or Globes, whatever. It’s just a certain, like, you’re bro, bro, you’re,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 9s):

You’re a bro flat Bill hat the whole thing. You’re, you’re, you’re two stroke motocross, right?

Sean P. Holman (3m 14s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 14s):

That’s a bro. Right? T R X to me is the, if a bro hits the lottery, a bro buys the T R X. It’s the king of all the bro trucks. It’s what he aspires to earn. Right?

Sean P. Holman (3m 24s):

Okay. All right. All right. Right.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 25s):

So here’s me with bro par plates right here. That’s

Sean P. Holman (3m 30s):

Dumb. you know how some plates look good when they see it, when you just look at it in the way the letters look, it just looks right. That just doesn’t look right. You’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 38s):

Just, but you, you’re

Sean P. Holman (3m 38s):

A hater. I am a hater. I think it’s dumb. You’re you’re a bro golfer. I think this is, is that what it is? you know, you got your golfer. Yeah. Par No, you do a bro on the golf course. Is that what it is?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 48s):

And listen, it’s an inside joke. Just the way, by the way, that yummy guess I joking.

Sean P. Holman (3m 53s):

What is B R O P A R? It’s broop. R

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (3m 56s):

Oh, come on. Broop. B R O P A R, bro.

Sean P. Holman (3m 60s):

Par. Hey. What, what’s b Brap ar

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 2s):

I’m not saying everyone’s gonna know what it is. If you’re not a Mopar fan, you’re, you’re not gonna have a clue. And

Sean P. Holman (4m 6s):

By the way, it looks like there’s a half space between the P and the A. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 9s):

Yeah. They based it out. A little weird, but I think that this is a funny play Now, yummy

Sean P. Holman (4m 13s):

Guess is so

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 13s):

Much for, if I wanna, if I wanna run these plates, these bro par plates, I have to turn in my yummy gas plates. ’cause they won’t gimme stickers for these. Nope. I wanna know from our audience at LBC Lightning or where, where should we do an i per impartial plates? Whoa.

Sean P. Holman (4m 28s):

Why would you? Because then nobody can validate. No, just Truck Show should license. Okay. Should Lightning go with the license plates that he currently has? Yummy Gas that are hilarious. Yummy Gas. Or Bro Par. Or

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 39s):

Bro par That make fun of Mopar guys.

Sean P. Holman (4m 42s):

But it’s, it’s like you just look like a douche.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 46s):

How do you look like a douche? Because

Sean P. Holman (4m 48s):

You’re like, oh, bro. Par bro don don’t know. You just, it’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 52s):

Do you don’t think that people will think that it’s

Sean P. Holman (4m 53s):

Self-deprecating? No. Really? No. I think they’re really gonna think that that’s how you are. I do. Really? I swear the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (4m 60s):

Who what bro thinks that they’re a bro.

Sean P. Holman (5m 2s):

All of ’em. They do. Yes.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 4s):

They, they like being a bro. Yes. I’m not aware of that, bro. Is a negative term.

Sean P. Holman (5m 8s):

Put it on your car.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 10s):

Yes. That’s, I think it’s funny. Just like Yummy Gas is making fun of It’s a gas guzzler. Right.

Sean P. Holman (5m 16s):

That’s funny though. I think yummy gas is funny.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 19s):

Okay. All right. Well, all right. So what we’ll do is we need to limit

Sean P. Holman (5m 22s):

Mopar Seems like to me like it’s just like, here’s what we do. Lowest hanging fruit. Here’s what we do. hold on. Listen. It’s like the lowest common denominator. So easy to go, oh dude, bro. Par. Oh look, T-Rex. Ugh. Like, it’s just so yummy. Gas is like, that’s funny. You’re like, because it’s a little bit childish and you have a really high-end, expensive vehicle and you’re sort of flaunting that you don’t care that it’s a gas guzzler. But you also understand that there’s self-awareness. It, it’s just, to me it just, it, it clicks all the boxes. Bro. Par just, you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 53s):

Just to me bro. Par does the same thing. Yeah. It’s making fun of all the guys. I’m all

Sean P. Holman (5m 57s):

About, about making fun of you. I’m good with that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (5m 58s):

Yeah. But I am too. I think it’s funny to make fun of me. But don don’t

Sean P. Holman (6m 1s):

Think that’s making fun of you. So here’s what we

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 3s):

Do. Here’s what we’re gonna do. Holman. You guys out there listening, you’re going to email us Truck show and you’re gonna vote. And then we’re gonna tally up the votes and find out which plates Lightning rocks with on the T R X Truck Show Which plates Yummy gas or

Sean P. Holman (6m 21s):

A yummy gas? Par B bro. Par C. None of the above. ’cause they’re both dumb.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 25s):

No, there’s no C I’m doing one or the other.

Sean P. Holman (6m 27s):

No, no. Listen, you can do C, you’ll ignore you. But

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (6m 29s):

You can do it. No, you cannot do it. Don’t waste our time do a C I’m telling you, I’m only gonna do one or the other. We want your vote, which is funnier. Which is more appropriate? Which one do you like better? Truck Show You are settling the debate.

Sean P. Holman (6m 44s):

Alright, well I, I think I know the answer, but I guess we should go to a topic that’s not debatable and that’s Nissan makes a great, rugged, dependable, reliable pickup truck. Whether it’s the halftime Nissan Titan or Titan XD or the mid-size Nissan Frontier where you can get all sorts of features like the Fender Audio System, zero gravity seats, spray and Bedliner, the UTIL Track rail system. Titan Boxes in the bed. Frontier Titan. You both get the Pro four X off road models. You get a platinum reserve on the Titans. If you like the luxury site of it. Nissan offers a full line of pickups at your local Nissan dealer. You can go to Nissan where you can build and price. You can figure out which Nissan Frontier or Titan or Titan XD is right for you. And if you choose the half Ton Titan or Titan xd, you get the industry’s best five year, 100,000 mile warranty.

Sean P. Holman (7m 26s):

Nissan has supported The Truck, Show Podcast almost since day one. We would love if you would support Nissan trucks as well. Just let ’em know that Sean and Jay sent you. They’ll roll out the red carpet for you at your local dealer.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 36s):

They don’t know who. We Are. Oh, you know who does know who? We. Are Banks.

Sean P. Holman (7m 42s):

Gail Banks or the company?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 43s):

Both. Both. I think they do. I think most of the people at my office know who. Who? We. Are. I hope

Sean P. Holman (7m 48s):

I’m I mean. Nobody’s ever stopped me just wandering around. So No, they

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (7m 51s):

Don’t. Although you’re probably one of the few people that don’t need a name tag. We have a new name tag deal at work where you have to sign in using an iPad and it prints your face and the whole thing. Yeah, it’s,

Sean P. Holman (7m 59s):

I just randomly walk around that place from time to time and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 1s):

Just, Hey,

Sean P. Holman (8m 2s):

Where’s Jay? Sometimes they’ll just ask me, are you looking for Jay? No, Gail, it’s over there. All

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 7s):

Right. I know it’s, that’s

Sean P. Holman (8m 8s):

Bizarre. Just walk into

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 9s):

A gate. We’re we’re on lockdown ’cause we got that Hum V contract that we’re doing. Yeah. So anyway, the reason I bring up Banks is because you guys need a monitoring system for your truck. You’re wondering what’s going on under the hood or in the drivetrain. And you don’t really know because frankly, St. STIs, GM Ford, they want you to drive in bliss. So how do you find out if your trans is slipping? How do you find out what your EEG ts are? How do you know what the average miles between your regions are and your Diesel pickups? What

Sean P. Holman (8m 36s):

If you have a 3 92 normally aspirated Jeep that doesn’t even have eeg, TSS and forced induction? What if you wanna monitor all the temperatures while off-roading, but you don’t wanna replace your entertainment or mapping screen on the middle of your dash? What do you do then? Lightning

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (8m 51s):

Banks I dash.

Sean P. Holman (8m 52s):

Oh yeah. I just got one of those. I I, you know what, to be honest, I love the ID dash. I had it on the 20 with a supercharger. Gave me so much info. I’ve really missed it in the 3 92. I know I’m not monitoring the same things, but we used your new stealth pod that mounts to the top of the grab handle on the A pillar, which is great. We

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 7s):

Gotta be careful about promoting that. ’cause it’s, you have the first one that’s three D printed outta carbon fiber.

Sean P. Holman (9m 11s):

It’s, and it’s awesome. Yeah. So So, I’m, I’m, we

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 14s):

Will have it soon.

Sean P. Holman (9m 14s):

Listen, listen. I’m seeding, I’m seeding the field, right? Now, I. I’m getting people excited about it. So I’ve Got it. I love it because you can use your, your visor with it. With the competitor product that I had on the old Jeep, you couldn’t. But having all that data, eight different parameters visible at one time, the ability to data log is awesome. Just allows me to have a lot better picture of what’s going on. Especially with summertime coming. I’ve got a, you know, AEV bumper and a winch and it’s got a lot more weight on it. What’s the tamp? Offroad? So that thing’s gonna be invaluable for my adventure. So I know you’re talking about the trucks and bringing up the Diesel and E G T and Boost and those are all super important. But for the rest of us that might have something normally aspirated, there’s a huge advantage to ID dash as well. For

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (9m 52s):

Sure. Go to Banks and check out the ID dash super gauge or the ID dash data monster, which logs up to a hundred parameters for a month on the supplied SSD card. It opens up a whole new world Banks

Sean P. Holman (10m 3s):

Alright, well to celebrate that obnoxious hoodie that you brought into the studio, not only, oh, dare you. Oh, you know what? I know what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna have the Bill Bilstein guys here in studio and we’ll talk to them about Bill Stein’s product. So instead of me telling you what you should know, we’re gonna have a discussion about everything else that you should know from experts who actually work there. And they’re gonna be on the show here right after the intro. So head over to bill Bilstein for all the information for a great monotube shock. If you need replacement, if you need modifications, if you want more performance, you want Bill Bilstein Shocks. And we’re gonna hear from them in this episode.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (10m 38s):

And you’ve still got time to get in on and onX Offroad 4th of July sale where you can save 30% off premium subscriptions and elite subscriptions to the best off-road map app period. Use Freedom 30 as the discount code at checkout to save 30% off for their 4th of July sale. Just simply go to onX with the premium. You get motorized trails in public lands. But if you really step up and go for the elite, you get private land ownership nationwide, motorized trails and public lands. It’s down from a hundred dollars a year to only 70 bucks for their 4th of July sale.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 18s):

Please take our advice and take advantage of this.

Sean P. Holman (11m 19s):

And don’t forget member benefits that you get with the elite here. Not just the property ownership and things like that. They have partnerships with 21 different companies. Everybody from Warren to Rugged Radios Method, race Wheels and O V R Magazine. You actually get a free subscription. These are like 15, 20% off merchandise parts, whatever I mean. If you buy the elite subscription with the Freedom 30 discount and you buy something from Warren and you basically pay for that entire subscription, plus you can still get O V R for free.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (11m 46s):

It’s the biggest no-brainer in the history of no-brainers or

Sean P. Holman (11m 49s):

At least podcasts. Right?

2 (11m 51s):

The, we’re going to show you what we know. We’re gonna answer what the truck, because truck rides with the truck show. We have the Lifted, we have the lowered end, everything in between. We talk about trucks that run on Diesel and the ones that run on gasoline. The truck show. The truck show. The truck show.

3 (12m 23s):

It’s the truck show with your hosts Lightning and Holman

2 (12m 30s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (12m 30s):

This is officially the first time that we have had more than one guest in the pod shed.

Sean P. Holman (12m 36s):

We have five people total in there right now. This is weird. So remember when I told you that I was gonna do a 10 by 10? I gotta give props out to my mom because she’s like, sure you don’t want a 10 by 12. I’m like, no, it’ll be great. I’m glad we went to 10 by 12 because we have everybody. So here, We Are, we’re in the pod shed. We’ve got Shane Casad from Bill Bilstein, junior Africa from Bill Bilstein, and we’re all gathered around the the table. We’re gonna, we’re gonna talk Shocks.

4 (13m 14s):

It’s for you to share. 1, 2, 2.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (13m 18s):

There it is.

5 (13m 19s):

I wanted to get up and start dancing, but it’s a little too small for that

6 (13m 23s):

Truck show. Whoa.

Sean P. Holman (13m 25s):

All right. Well here We Are, the, the pod shed with our friends from Bill Bilstein. And as you guys know, bill Stein’s been a supporter of the, the podcast for a number of years now. And we talk about it all the time. All of my personal stuff is Bill Bilstein and really that started with Shane and I, you know, we’ve known each other for like 20 years, probably even before that. ’cause R C D, right When we did the R C D kit on my, so it’s probably been 22 years or something crazy and we’ve gone on all sorts of adventures all over and Bill Bilstein was really back, you know, 22 years ago was a, was a big name in the oe. If you had a, an aftermarket type package for your OE truck, you know, a Offroad package. Bill Bilstein was always the company that they would, you know, they would work with.

Sean P. Holman (14m 8s):

And then when I started to get to know Bill Bilstein in the aftermarket through Shane and we got to go in Baja to watch the races after I built my 2002 Ranger FX four with a full, you know, long travel kit on it. After we got to do wide open Baja, you know, I get spent all these experiences on Bill Bilstein.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (14m 24s):

Hold on one second. So Sheen, tell me how you guys met.

6 (14m 28s):

Well it, back to the Ranger. So we had a a dollar car, a Ford Ranger way back when,

Sean P. Holman (14m 35s):

A 99 or 2000, something like that. That wasn, right when

6 (14m 37s):

The body changed. Yeah. The first year, the I F Ss and we worked with a company called R R C D, which R C D was a kind of a real influential li lift kit company way back when. Anyway, Sean was a big Ranger fan and we did a coil over conversion on this Ranger, which was kind of like,

Sean P. Holman (14m 55s):

Back then I was running forums. I was like the moderator of Offroad and stuff

6 (14m 59s):

Like that. Yeah, Offroad rangers. So he was a big Ranger Geek.

Sean P. Holman (15m 2s):

Geek, yeah. Guru.

6 (15m 4s):

So that’s where like guru better, that’s where we met. And that was before we even started working at magazines too. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (15m 9s):

Yeah. I was, I wasn’t at magazines yet. I was just a dude who was an enthusiast and hung out in the forums, which is where you hung out back in the day and was upgrading my Ranger, So I do posts and stuff. Like, hey, just put a, you know, k and n pic in or you know, I just did, you know, a, a Tire upgrade and I really wanted this R C D kit Because. it took out the torsion bars and went to overs. And

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (15m 29s):

What was your motivation Holman to put those posts up? Because you weren’t a journalist back then. So what were you doing? You were trying to be a community leader?

Sean P. Holman (15m 37s):

Yes, I was a community leader. I no walked around the neighborhood at night with a flashlight and a no, like red beret An Ranger flag flag, an Ranger flag.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (15m 43s):

I mean were, were you, were you

Sean P. Holman (15m 45s):

No, I just, I was enthusiast. I just, I I had, there was a lot of, back then, I felt like there were a lot of people out there that were dispensing information that wasn’t accurate or they didn’t know people. And so through that I got to know people at companies like Shane who represented the product or got to know people at different. And so then I could give my take on it after knowing from, you know, the actual people with the product. Like, Hey, no, I heard this is what it is. Oh no my, my buddy works there and here’s this real story or you know, you wanna go with this suspension, here’s why I raced on it in Baja or chased or you know, all that kind of stuff. And so at that time I was probably still working for the police department. And before that, you know, when I was growing up, I had 13 magazines growing up.

Sean P. Holman (16m 28s):

So 13 subscriptions. I was always like that magazine centric. I like talking to people, I like telling people you know about stuff and, and educating people. And so that’s kind of why I, I got on the forums doing that. And then that turned into 20 plus years of automotive journalism. Truckin

6 (16m 42s):

Well, when I met, yeah, when I met Sean he wasn’t, you had the desert, was it Offroad Rangers? Yeah,

Sean P. Holman (16m 46s):


6 (16m 47s):

Rangers. Yeah, Offroad Rangers.

Sean P. Holman (16m 48s):

There were two competing boards at the time. Offroad Rangers and Desert Rangers. Desert Ranger. We went at it Ranger. Yeah.

6 (16m 53s):

But we always talked about like gonna the Mojave Road. Yep. And like back in those days, nobody ever talked about going camping out in the desert. Ever. Never ever.

Sean P. Holman (17m 2s):

No That wasn. Only like day

6 (17m 3s):

Trips. That, wasn, wheeling, That, wasn either wheeling or high speed stuff. Yeah. Back then. So we’d get in these long conversations about, and I’d never done the Mojave Road. That wasn like a, A myth, a legend, a mythical thing

Sean P. Holman (17m 13s):

Back then. I mean he and I bought the same book the Cal Southern California offer Back Country Adventure. Back Country Adventure. Yeah. And what we would do is we’d get on the phone or maybe an email was started, we’d get on the phone and he would, I’d go, dude, page 2 55, what trail is that? And we’d look and we’d be like, let’s go do this. And so we started like using this book to plan out these day and camping trips where we would Wheel and then we’d spend a night in some rad spot and cook, you know, try tip over an open fire and drink a lot of beer and hang out and then we would head home the next day. So these adventures just started turning into trips and nobody was doing that back then. Why?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (17m 48s):

Why, why was it be like now everyone does it? No, it’s OvrlndX

Sean P. Holman (17m 51s):

Like no, the scene wasn’t there. Everybody was either into Baja go fast because of things like best in the desert. Racing was huge in Southern California. Score was huge in Southern California. So you either had a Go Fasts truck and you hung with the race teams or you built a, you know, back then That wasn like the first set of, you know, modified I-beams and stuff were hitting rangers. But we had four Wheel drives. I was a four Wheel drive guy and I wanted to make my four Wheel drive go fast. And so the hard thing was there wasn’t a lot of people doing that at that time. That wasn all about pre-running. Well all the four Wheel drives were Jeeps and at that time I was not a huge Jeep person ’cause I wasn’t into short Wheel basis. didn didn’t really become super deep in the Jeep brand until LJ came out. And you could finally have a long Wheel based Jeep. ’cause I always like pickup trucks. And so that’s kind of my, where my history was.

Sean P. Holman (18m 32s):

So here I am meeting Shane and he’s working on this kit with R C D where I have like the number two prototype. I think they had one company vehicle and mine at the Bill Bilstein vehicle. And then mine was the first consumer vehicle to test it out. And basically we’re converting this torsion bar setup into being into a coil over with a much better monotube shock that you could go a little bit faster Offroad. And so our thing was like, we like going fast. We love covering a lot of ground. Like I remember Shane used to have this, this Jeep Cherokee called the, I called it the stealth Xj Because. it was beige with tan interior, but he had these just

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (19m 7s):

Disappeared right into the desert floor. Oh yeah.

Sean P. Holman (19m 9s):

Perfect. In the desert. But it sat at basically stock height or just a little bit higher. And he had these crazy Shocks, like a short body 5,100 reservoir that he cobbled together with parts So. it basically That wasn, a long travel shock and a short travel body. So That wasn compact enough to fit under the xj. So when you looked at it, it just looked like a reservoir shock. No big deal. But it had like what, 11 inches of travel or 10,

6 (19m 29s):

Actually back in those days a reservoir shock was a big deal. Yeah,

Sean P. Holman (19m 31s):

Well that’s true. Yeah. It’s funny we don’t even think about that stack.

6 (19m 34s):


Sean P. Holman (19m 34s):

Yeah, How much travel. Did you have in that That wasn like 10 or something? That wasn. That wasn about 10. Yeah. And so we would go out to the desert and I remember this one trip I had a Hummer H three Alpha and we went to Trona Pinnacles and leaving the, the trail or leaving Trona out the south is this whooped out road for like 20 miles or something like the worst, whoops ever. And I was trying to keep up with Shane and he’s staying on top of it with this xj on 31 inch tires, like dun dun dun over the top. And I’m in a H one alpha or H three alpha, which had mono tube Shocks on it from there, from the factory, from gm. And I was actually keeping up and staying on top. But I’ll never forget, I was watching, he had a, a dog with him and That wasn like this Pomeranian. And I remember every time the the XJ would get light, the dog would float in in the air.

Sean P. Holman (20m 15s):

And I’m, look, I’m looking right through his back window and Shane’s driving and it’s like wonk. And he’s lifting up, grabbing the dog outta the space, pulling it down, grabbing the dog outta space, pulling it down. That wasn. The funniest thing you’ve ever seen sounds

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 25s):

Like a cartoon.

Sean P. Holman (20m 26s):

But my point is that this Xj That is super unassuming, basically stock height, sock, Wheel and Tire package. But with 10 as a travel could go anywhere. And That wasn awesome out in the

6 (20m 34s):

Desert. The idea was just to cover as much ground as possible. So it’s like racing through the desert on your own with your, with your buddies. Yep. And then you’d camp out

Sean P. Holman (20m 44s):

And then you’d be by yourself. It wasn’t like you were chasing a race where there’s pit teams or, or roads are closed or you’re camping with 50 other dudes out in the middle of the desert. That wasn. Like we were going to, we were looking at like points of interest. We were finding ghost towns and we were finding, you know, old historical places and we’re finding old mines and then we crash crash

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (20m 60s):

Planes. Yeah,

Sean P. Holman (21m 1s):

All that stuff. We’d go find things like that and then we would hop, you know, we’d cover ground, we’d do like a hundred miles in a day camp, do another a hundred miles and head home or something like that. And so that’s kind of how it started. Well I did all that all the time on Bill Stein’s. Whether That wasn on my, my Ranger, whether That wasn on my jk, whether That wasn on. So you know, my old, you know, flat fender, my current flat fender has Bill Stein’s under it too. Obviously my 3 92 has Bill Bilstein under it. So I just always stuck with the Shocks that were also, ’cause the first time I ever did, you know, like Mojave road stock because of the whooped out sections are so long, it’s so hot. The fade was immediate. you would literally be able to feel the suspension falling apart around you as the Shocks heated up and had and and Cavitated to the point where there’s no column of oil to support the piston

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (21m 48s):

So. it just got a really stiff ride is what you’re saying. No loose crash

Sean P. Holman (21m 50s):

Crashed through everything the opposite. Horrible. Oh. And the first time I was able to do that trip and not have that happen was on a set of Bill Steins. And that’s what sold me on the brand and Monotube Shocks That wasn like, oh my god, I can, I can go faster longer. I don’t have to sit here and wait for my Shocks to cool down. This is incredible. And I did a lot of that with Shane in the beginning. That’s, was that

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 7s):

Because of their work in Baja or how did, where did that development come from?

6 (22m 11s):

Mercedes-Benz? Yeah, Mercedes-Benz Oh. really? Yeah. Bill Bilstein developed the monotube shock, which till this day is like probably the highest end of shock. There is like any motor sports shock, whether it be onroad, Offroad is typically monotube. There’s a, a dividing piston that separates the gas from the oil and keeps it from cavitating. So the oil’s pressurized and this is the, the quick No no, the quick rundown is, and you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (22m 37s):

Don’t have to be quick by the way

6 (22m 38s):

The, the oil’s pressurized and it keeps it from cavitating and you can run the shock. Bilstein can run up to 300 degrees. That’s the tech, that’s our quality requirement. So you can, you can run the shock at 300 degrees without cavitation.

Sean P. Holman (22m 52s):

So imagine this, this water bottle here Lightning and you see the water that’s floating in it. Yep. Imagine that that water is a column of oil. Okay. And imagine that there’s a piston above that water that separates the water from the air charge here. And so that piston floats between the two but keeps ’em separated so that you don’t get bubbles, which is cavitation in that oil. Because once this column of oil represented by the water and this water bottle, like if you shake it up with bubbles like this, it no longer supports and those bubbles go through the piston, it’s no longer supporting that. And it messes up the flow through the ports on the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (23m 28s):

Piston. Well air is compressible and the oil is not right.

Sean P. Holman (23m 30s):

So you’ve gotta piston that goes through that oil, but then you gotta separate dividing piston that keeps the oil and the Yeah. Gas

6 (23m 36s):

Separate And there might, there’s some, there’s obviously some air in the system, but since it’s pressurized any air bubbles that that are in with the oil are compressed. Oh So it just So it just keeps it so it’s just oil. Okay. The other type of shock is a twin tube shock and it doesn’t do that.

Sean P. Holman (23m 52s):

And that’s like the common like white shock you’d find on a base model on a lift kit or something.

6 (23m 56s):

So Bill Bilstein developed that technology in 1954 or 55 in conjunction with Benz. Any high-end either road racing, off-road racing, they’re all mono tube Shocks I mean obviously when the patents for Bill Bilstein ran out, That wasn a patented technology for many years, But that only lasts for so long. So the reason why Bill Bilstein like, like we’re outta San Diego. So the reason why Bill Bilstein is in San Diego is because they people would import Mercedes-Benz Monotube Shocks and put two three of them per Wheel in a Baja 1000 car. People were importing these Bill steins into, you know, San Diego or you know, Southern California for all

Sean P. Holman (24m 41s):

The Baja racing and buggies and stuff.

6 (24m 44s):

And that’s why we’re down in San Diego because of that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (24m 47s):

Why would anyone not use a mono tube? Like is it more expensive to build a mono tube? Yes. Instead of a twin tube? Yes.

6 (24m 53s):

Okay. Yes, very much. But also

5 (24m 55s):

Just to be fair, twin Tube has their place in the market.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (24m 59s):

What place is that other than cost? Well,

Sean P. Holman (25m 1s):


6 (25m 2s):

Most, okay

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (25m 3s):

Just cost.

5 (25m 3s):

Well not even

Sean P. Holman (25m 4s):

Base model vehicles, like a truck from the factory is gonna come with factory twin tubes. You the

5 (25m 8s):

Step up, even even for instance, elderly people, they want more of a compliant, comfortable cush ride out of, out of a vehicle like a Cadillac. Whereas a mono tube shock properly tuned is gonna control that chassis to where you’re not getting that additional

Sean P. Holman (25m 24s):

And more tau basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

5 (25m 26s):

Yeah. It’s geared, I think mono tube’s geared more around the motorsports, the enthusiasts, the people who actually have a high respect for, for chassis control.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (25m 35s):

Okay. So it’s not a hundred percent about cost. There are some applications where a twin tube does actually make sense. Correct. For the vehicle, again, you’s talking about a really absolute, really plush, you know, luxury car that they just want to float over the, you know, over the highway. It makes sense in that application. Yeah. We

5 (25m 52s):

Have a whole line of twin tube Shocks or B four, our B four line for OE replacement dampers on all the German models. Audi, Porsche, B m w, Mercedes, we have actually Mercedes is mostly mono two, but, but we have a lot of twin tube options for that entry level market.

6 (26m 9s):

But, but I think like, like say for a truck, like a Chevy truck, Ford truck, you know, they come with a twin tube, they’re pretty much valves pretty soft. They give you a comfy ride, but they fall short if you ever wanna like push ’em off road or

Sean P. Holman (26m 21s):

Even towing too I mean you, you start getting loads. Yeah. And, and that chassis control becomes really apparent. I mean we’ve had how many listeners write into us with emails saying, hey, didn didn’t really know what Shocks to get, but because you guys talked about Bill Bilstein and got him and hey, my wife rode in it for the first time and asked what I did. Because it was the truck felt co completely different or this truck has never rid ridden this well, ever since That wasn new and you know, so many testimonials of people who have used the product and yeah, we’re, you know, bill Bilstein sponsors the show, but it’s because we believe in the product that we’re, we talk about it and if our, our listeners are any indication you guys feel the same way once you try it.

6 (26m 56s):

Yeah. So when you, when you drive a truck off the lot, it works pretty good. It, it rides pretty smooth, but like what Sean said, you put a trailer behind it, you reach the limit pretty quick. Especially if you’re gonna drive on dirt trails. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (27m 9s):

Especially with heat.

6 (27m 11s):

Yeah, with heat.

Sean P. Holman (27m 12s):

So the other, the other benefit of monotube is monotube one. Right? That, that’s because the Shocks are put in a single walled tube versus a twin tube, which, which is a, a tube inside a tube. So you’re trapping heat between those walls, much like that Yeti cup over there is a twin wall stainless, well they do that Because, it wants to trap the te you know the temperature Well yeah, hot. The Shocks are the same hotter cold. Yeah. So it, it heats up in there. Well with the monotube Because it’s touching the environment on one side and the oil on the other, it’s naturally like shedding heat. Yeah,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (27m 40s):

It rejects heat right to the atmosphere. Right. Yeah. So just like if you’re on any Facebook group or forum, there’s always the same questions that get asked all the time of any group. Like what size, wheels and tires can I run without rubbing what there’s all these questions, right? But one of the ones we get all the time is, I don’t know what shock to buy for my application. And yes, I’d like you guys to take us through for the thousandth time, but it matters because we have a lot of new listeners that come to the show and they don’t go back all 300 plus episodes and for the last time you were on or a shock expert. So take us through just briefly kind of the buckets. If you do this, you should probably look at this category of shock.

5 (28m 19s):

Yeah. It’s really about qualifying, obviously qualifying their need, right? So like a guy that’s just daily driving his vehicles is never gonna see dirt and just wants to level it and put a little bit larger Tire or 51 hundreds or probably all he needs,

Sean P. Holman (28m 34s):

It’s probably more than that guy needs. Right? Right, right. I mean 51 hundred’s a great shock.

5 (28m 37s):

Yeah. 51 hundred’s a great shock and it allows you to level your vehicle without like destroying suspension geometry. What what people need to know is, is we, we built a 5,100 to mitigate having to put a spacer on with a spacer. Typically what you do is you, you jam it up in the top of your stru assembly or your coil over assembly, but you’re not doing anything to the damping. So you’re changing suspension geometry with doing nothing to the damping. Whereas our 51 hundreds we, it operates off spring preload just like a race car. So you set preload, but also the shock is damped correctly for the additional spring preload that you’re introducing So, it gives you all the ride comfort, all the, all the control you need to go put your larger Tire on there.

5 (29m 22s):

And, and you know, and it’s tough when people start talk talking large Tire because it’s, it’s really determined to buy your Wheel offset choice, right? So Wheel offsets a, it’s a huge deal. Like you run a low offset Wheel, you might end up with a factory sized Tire so that you’re not beating up your fenders, you run a zero offset Wheel on like a Tacoma, then you can maybe run a 2 85 with minimal trimming. The offset really is the total end result of what Tire size you’re gonna run.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (29m 53s):

That doesn’t, it’s not discussed that way very often. I mean we know that offset is important for what guys are thinking about. Well think about rubbing

Sean P. Holman (30m 1s):

Well yeah, rubbing on these. But here’s what’s, here’s what’s happening is you have on a, let’s say a solid axle with a straight up and down shock. You have a one-to-one motion ratio. That means for, you know, every movement of axle and suspension, you have the same movement in the shock, well you start doing I f Ss and you look at, you know, long travel like a raptor or something. Well the way they’re getting extra travel, the shock is inboard, they’re moving the Wheel ends out. And so that contact patch in the middle is further away. Well because the leverage point is so, so much further out, that’s how they’re getting extra travel. So now they have to control extra travel within that same stroke of shock. So now you have to have the technology and valving because having more leverage out on the end is so much

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (30m 38s):

More force, right?

Sean P. Holman (30m 39s):

You’re doing this exact same thing with a high offset Wheel with wheels sticking out as you’re moving that contact patch outboard. But you still have the same stroke shock in the same location, but you’ve changed the motion ratio. And that’s why upgrading your suspension with the Wheel and Tire package is so, you know, is so important, especially with Shocks is ’cause that valving is gonna be completely changed by putting your wheels further away from where the pivot point is. Is

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (31m 1s):

It exponential like moving the Wheel Tire out from like a, a zero offset to a plus 20 or 30 or something? Like how does it directly relate mathematically to what you need to do to the shock? For example, like if I move it out an inch, does that mean that I have to go twice as stiff on the valving or no, you know what I’m saying? Like, so

5 (31m 26s):

When you’re dealing with a one-to-one motion ratio, like, like Sean was talking about, you have a solid axle, let’s just, let’s say a Jeep TJ or an lj, he loved an lj. So do I

Sean P. Holman (31m 35s):

They’re great.

5 (31m 37s):

You put a the proper sounds

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (31m 39s):

Like a song by the way. He loved an lj

5 (31m 42s):

So you put a proper on

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (31m 43s):

The coast So I. So you lift these things, you

5 (31m 44s):

Lift these things.

Sean P. Holman (31m 45s):

I a

5 (31m 46s):

Jail, you lift an lj, the proper backspacing and at that timeline was, you know, a 15 eight with a three and three quarter inch. Yep. You, when a, when you’re dealing with a one-to-one motion ratio, you don’t do anything necessarily to the damping like an lj the factory spring weight rate was maybe a hundred seventy five hundred eighty pounds. Whereas when you get more aggressive motion ratios, you need more aggressive spring rates, which require more, more increase in damping. So because you’re damping now a far heavier spring due to the motion ratio, you need more damping to control all that additional kinetic springers

Sean P. Holman (32m 21s):

And obviously the extra weight of an aftermarket wider rim and upgraded Wheel and Tire size too, right? You have take all that into account and again, that’s where the spring rate comes in. Correct to that part of the equation. Wait,

6 (32m 32s):

I thought you were gonna start talking about long arm and motion ratio

5 (32m 35s):

And leverage. Yeah. I mean that’s, that’s, that’s, we could talk about that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (32m 38s):

I, let’s, let’s do talk about that.

5 (32m 40s):

So, so, so I mean you,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (32m 41s):

Here’s here I mean everyone wants a quote unquote long travel suspension. Right? And what does that do to you?

5 (32m 46s):

Well, you know, here’s the, here’s the problem. Whether you’re, it makes me happy running a Bilstein, whether you’re running a king, whether you’re running a fox or, the worst thing you can do is, let’s just say you, you put a total chaos kit on your first gen taco, you put an eight inch travel Wait, wait,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (33m 0s):

That’s the worst thing you do is put a total No,

5 (33m 2s):

No, no, no, no.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (33m 3s):

That’s start foundationally you

5 (33m 4s):

Start off. So foundationally you start with a chaos kit like a, like a 13 inch travel chaos kit on your first gen taco. You put an eight inch coil over that’s just default ing profile. You put a secondary bypass on there and you just drive it. Like the problem is is you think it’s great me or Shane or Sean get in that car and we’re like, this sucks. This is terrible because

Sean P. Holman (33m 27s):

I think there’s a lot of people who aren’t experienced get into a long travel kit and they mistake or confused travel with ride quality. Correct. I’ve been in nine inch travel vehicles that ride way better and are way can drive way faster than an outta sorts 12, 13, 14 inch long travel vehicle because

5 (33m 43s):

It’s tuned. Right? And you got the camp, you got the confidence to blow through that eight inches of travel. Yeah. Whereas now your 13 inch travel kit hasn’t been tuned correctly. Junior.

Sean P. Holman (33m 51s):

I’ve always had that confidence. Yeah. Well

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (33m 53s):

What, so junior, what is it doing in that, in that total chaos scenario that you painted? It’s,

5 (33m 57s):

Well, it damped correctly. So, so

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (33m 58s):

What am am I like what’s happening as I’m going through the whoops, like what is it, what am I feeling? What everything

5 (34m 4s):

You’re using all the travel. You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re and you’re and you’re not using it as linear as it should be used. So theoretically like when I, when I would build these trucks, I would pull all the damping outta the coil over see how it felt with the default valving where I could turn tubes to adjust it on a truck. That light 3.4 liter V six, you don’t need all that valving.

Sean P. Holman (34m 24s):

Well that’s the other thing. Other people, you know, a lot of people, they think they need the biggest bodied shock possible. But like what I learned through Shane and through the Bilstein guys over the years is pi the diameter. So body size actually adds spring rate to it. So if you have a lightweight vehicle, you don’t need a three inch shock on that. Right. And the other thing in going to what Junior was talking about is you’re asking what’s the difference on a vehicle that’s not set up properly going through the whoops. And you’re bottom out, top out, bottom out, top out. That’s not what you want. Being on your jounces either on the rebound side or on the compression side is equally bad. And it wears out components. It’s hard on the frame. It’s hard on the, it

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (34m 60s):

Remind people what a jounce is.

Sean P. Holman (35m 1s):

It’s your end stop control. So either microcellular a hydraulic bump stop a J C L

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (35m 6s):

Side Bilstein so you’re not slamming metal in the middle

5 (35m 8s):

Roane grommet whatever you

Sean P. Holman (35m 10s):

Whatever. Yeah. Whatever it is, it’s the end, the end stop control of a suspension. What you want is for that suspension to breathe. You don’t want it to be using a hundred percent of its travel ’cause you’re outta sorts. And then that acts that makes the front end and rear end act on each other. It makes the chassis outta sorts. You wanna be in the middle using of like 75%. So you have breathing room. If you are going through and there’s a truck gobbler in the middle, you still have overhead to hit that and be fine and not have the chassis set up. So for me, like when I’m evaluating suspension, especially on like new vehicles, like if I go going out and I’m driving a, a new truck or, or s u v and I’m in that kind of train, I want to feel it breathe. I want to feel it equally on rebound as as I do on compression and let the, the ride motions sit in the middle of that shock up and down, letting the suspension work as a chassis goes through.

Sean P. Holman (35m 56s):

’cause the second you bang off the stops, everything changes.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (35m 58s):

So you want about, you’re in the middle 50 and there’s a top 25% and a bottom 25%. Right?

Sean P. Holman (36m 3s):

I mean I would say yeah, I would say mi maybe middle 70 or something like that. So,

5 (36m 6s):

So the the thing is, is, is is is to the people listening. If you put a long travel kit on there, you put a coil over a bypass, an ex ex, you know, an external like nitrogen bump, stop it, it, you get hit in the pocket real heavy. you know, because these kits are what, 13, $15,000. But here’s the key, you’re not done yet because you need to go pay $2,000 for someone to properly tune it because these are just off the shelf Shocks that are going on there that had no idea what they would end up on.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (36m 34s):

This feels like a a a race car that comes without a tune and you just exactly. Just take it to a track Exactly, right? You’ve gotta spend hours and hours and hours at that specific track. Even maybe, right? Like, here, here’s what I’m gonna set the car up for So, I’ll take

Sean P. Holman (36m 48s):

This opportunity. So what Bill Bilstein does is there’s basically two different lines of Shocks. You have your direct replacement where it’s going to replace something on your vehicle. It may, it may be something that’s zero to three inch lift or what, like a leveling or a replacement for a lift kit or whatever. And then you have the race shock line. So the the ones that are direct replacement where you’re bolt taking off a shock, you’re putting a new one on, those are tuned specifically for your vehicle. Bill Stein’s already taken out the guesswork of that. And you can bolt those on with assurances that it’s gonna ride great on your vehicle. If you get a 2010 F two 50 and you go and buy Bill Bilstein 51 hundreds, that shock’s gonna work and ride great on that truck. But if you have a custom application, bill Bilstein makes a bunch of different variations of their Shocks, different piston sizes, body different technology that comes with what junior’s talking about baseline.

Sean P. Holman (37m 35s):

And then you would have to go have those tuned and you’re looking at extended length, collapsed length, what the eyes are on it, you know, is it a stem mound, is it an eyelid? All that different stuff to figure out if it, that will package within what you’re trying to do. So when you’re cut, when it comes to Shocks, there’s two different things you’re looking at. Do you want direct replacement that somebody’s already done the tuning for you and that’s more of the mild builds or do you want something fully custom that you can completely control? And so you have those options. Which

5 (37m 60s):

Brings me to this. You could take one of our 81 twelves that’s tuned like as a, as Sean stated, that’s tuned for the vehicle has the, it has, it has an

Sean P. Holman (38m 9s):

A 60 millimeter piston, two point PI 0.65 diameter.

5 (38m 12s):

Right? it has internal jounce, it has the J C O and the R C o. I would challenge anyone, anyone to outperform that suspension setup with an untuned long travel kit. It’s that good. Even I I, you know what, I’m gonna be confident enough to say, even with a long travel kit that’s been moderately tuned, I think the 81 12 will chew it up and, and and, and I’m confident and, and I’m confident when I say it, I’m confident and I’ve done this for 25 years,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (38m 43s):

This Sean to me this feels a lot like e C M tuning.

5 (38m 48s):

Yeah. Very much so.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (38m 49s):

Very much. Where, where a guy buys a race car or a truck and he immediately wants to tune it, he’s gonna go to a guy in a corrugated steel building and he’s gonna pay the guy 1500 bucks or more to tune it and try to outperform, get more out of the, the fuel and air tables do a better job than General Motors could have done with PhDs. you know, guys working on tuning, like what is it? So this the direct correlation, like some guy who just is like a, an enthusiast that’s got a laptop is gonna out tune General Motors.

Sean P. Holman (39m 25s):

Well when

5 (39m 26s):

It comes, well General Motors tunes with with with reliability in mind General Motors

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (39m 31s):

Tunes. Yeah. No, get so, but what I’m saying is it’s, it’s possible it is possible to get more out of that vehicle. A

5 (39m 37s):

Hundred percent. But look at, look at the B m BMW N 54 motor r r okay. That thing comes to the, to the customer at 300 horsepower, 300 foot pounds of torque. You can go do a simple tune and get that thing into the 450 horsepower range, which many do,

Sean P. Holman (39m 52s):

But they’re dead at the expense

5 (39m 53s):

Reliability their driveway, they’re dead in their driveway. you know what I mean? Because as like suspension one thing leads into the next. Leads into the next

Sean P. Holman (40m 0s):

Yeah. You have, you know, it goes back to for me, grand Smo or Grand SMO two on PlayStation where you would try and tune your suspension Yeah. And you get so outta whack with compression and rebound and val and trying to do it just in that simple setting that you’re like, how do I zero this back out to get back to my baseline? Well it

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (40m 17s):

Feels like you’re But that you’re just chasing it now. You’re chasing

Sean P. Holman (40m 20s):

The dragon

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (40m 20s):


Sean P. Holman (40m 21s):

You don’t know what you’re doing. You could mess your suspension up too. Especially on an adjustable shock. Like a bypass. Well

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (40m 25s):

I guess I to, to put a button on the E C M thing is that I think that there are plenty of guys who, like our friend Corey Willis, who’s really good at what they do and they can get more to the vehicle with A B M W or a truck, whatever. It’s, but that’s a decision. You as the, as the vehicle owner, are you gonna go down that road and are you willing to continue to tweak that vehicle and that E C M to get more out of whatever the application is? Are you street racing? You’re going onto track whatever, like you gotta go be committed to that highway. Right? you know what I mean? That pathway otherwise,

5 (40m 54s):

And I understand the direct effects it’s gonna have on whether it’s leaning the vehicle out or whether, you know, what I mean. Whatever ma remapping that’s gonna, the end result of that’s gonna be,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (41m 4s):

So your long travel situation where the guy with the triple bypass and all this other stuff, like he’s opening up a can of worms that he needs to commit to. Right?

5 (41m 13s):

You know how many bypass Shocks I see right next to a coil over that aren’t even in the proper ride zone. Like they’re not, they’re in a compression zone at ride height. It, it’s just imperative wherever you spend your money, just make sure that whoever you’re talking to understands your need is able to meet your need and then can follow up and make sure that the suspension’s working good. Is there. And this is, I think this is the reason why, why Shane as a product manager of Bilstein went down the 81 12 route because this shock is ex extraordinary So, it gets rid of any external bump. Stop, need it get it has a rebound cutoff zone. So So. it does everything a long travel kit does within one unit,

Sean P. Holman (41m 57s):

Essentially. Well I, I helped to develop on my old jk, the 81 12 double bypass for, for jks. And you know, Shane and I were talking, he’s like, what do you think if you had a list of suspension upgrades? And you know, he wanted to kind of compare my thoughts with what he was thinking, what Bilstein was thinking. And I’m like, I would love to see a direct replacement, tutu bypass for a lifted Jeep. I said, everybody sells a coil over and bypass. You gotta Weld on brackets and all this stuff. And by the way, it’s to Junior’s point, if you Weld your brackets in the wrong spot and you’re, your shock is now in the compression zone at ride height, you’ve got major problems. You have a $1,500, two $2,000 shock that isn’t gonna work. Right. You’re shutting down Detroit. Yeah. You’re the short,

5 (42m 36s):

You’re shutting off the short tube just so that it’s not,

Sean P. Holman (42m 38s):

It, it’s, you’re not even, you’re not even going to use why you got that shock. You just, it’s just eye candy at that point. So that’s important. But but going back to it, so you know, Shane and I were talking we’re just like, well every Jeep out there is lifted three inches. Like it would be nice to take off the shock, put on a bypass, but retain the, the regular coil spring, not a coil over. ’cause then you can put bypass Shocks on your Jeep and not have to Weld any bracketry, any lift kit could use it their bypass. So you can dial it in. And So I helped prototype on my jk and I’ll tell you to this day, that was the best suspension I’ve ever had. Yeah, you told me that today. Yeah. I mean That wasn. And I’ll tell you

5 (43m 13s):

Why. Unbelievable. I’ll tell you why. Everyone thinks that the best modification is to get rid of everything that Jeep did. And that’s not the case. Like, I get guys that want be sponsored all the time that I wanna do a double down kit, which I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with Right. I’m not saying, but the amount of tuning that’s involved to get that vehicle to operate like Sean’s JK with a bolt-in bypass is, is a ton of money. It’s a ton of maintenance and it, it’s just not needed. A ton of noise. A ton of noise. And, and now you, you you’ve changed mo you’ve changed direction of the shock they’re pointing, they’re, you know, they’re pointing forward. So now you have more side load on the damper. Now you have, you know, brackets that weren’t tested by the OE that are just welded onto a chassis that you don’t know how, how, how well that’s gonna support.

5 (43m 58s):

And I try to tell people you have a far more tuneable option keeping a good quality coil. Whether you’re dealing with like a curry progressive rate or an icon triple rate or a synergy progressive or any kind of quality spring like that you have more tunability with a two two bypass and a good quality coil

Sean P. Holman (44m 18s):

Spring. Yeah. And I’ll tell you on that, on that bypass shock on my jk, which you guys just rebuilt for the guy who owns my old JK not too long ago. ’cause you’re releasing or just released that, that shock out in the marketplace just

6 (44m 29s):

Releasing probably like in two weeks. Perfect.

5 (44m 32s):


Sean P. Holman (44m 32s):

Really? Yeah. I mean this has been years in the making. Yeah. But I ran out of that. So just to go back, my, my JK was on a, basically an EVO enforcer kit, a three and a half inch, 30 sevens dynatrack, pro Rock 44 in the front. We basically left in those Evo coils, put in the bypass Shocks and tuned it. That was a manual transmission. And on a jk the manual has a, a really short, let’s see, So, I think it’s a, a long second, short third, and a long fourth. There’s like a big gap between three and four. I actually ran outta horsepower before I ran outta suspension. DAMing, I could outrun third gear and hit the limiter, which is like something don don’t know, 80 miles an hour or something on those Shocks and still be in control on a solid axle.

Sean P. Holman (45m 15s):

Basically stock set up with adjustable arms and things. Very simple kit. And had, I want to say 11 inches of travel out of that. Something like that.

5 (45m 24s):

Yeah. You, you know, your suspension’s faster than the vehicle. And that’s, and and this is another thing about that 81 12 kit that, that Shane was heavily part of the development is, is I challenge it. You’re putting a suspension on your vehicle for less than $5,000. That’s faster than the car that’s going on.

Sean P. Holman (45m 41s):

Totally. Totally.

5 (45m 43s):

You’ll run out of, how do I say this? Guts. Yeah. You run outta guts to keep that throttle pushed, but the suspension will still be absorbing all the hits.

6 (45m 53s):

Well, they, the, the idea behind that 81 12 though, so you had a Tacoma, let’s go back to, to the Tacoma of the long travel kit. So 13 inches of travel. Tacoma’s has about 10 by the time you put this shock on and do an arm or whatever. But the idea so that the long travel kit requires all this extra stuff welding on the frame, if you didn’t take the battery off when you did it, you fried the whole E C U. Right? you know, you gotta be really careful of that. You got limit straps. You’ve got this welded bracket, you’ve got this widened axle or widened suspension. You’ve got, now you need fenders,

5 (46m 29s):

Und tundra, half shafts.

6 (46m 29s):

Now you need F fenders. Now you need some guy who was smoking crack and put a CV together, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s like, it’s all not tested, tested.

5 (46m 38s):

Well, it’s just the center section, a T 100 center section, and they give you the cages and the bearings and everything, and it’s, it’s

6 (46m 43s):

All not, it’s all not tested. So go back to what you said. The engineers at Toyota, millions and millions and millions of dollars are spent on that suspension. So why not put a shock right there that’s gonna maximize what they did. That what 81 12 is, and the thing,

5 (46m 59s):

The whole thing is, it’s, it’s cataloged as 13 inches of travel. You blow through seven and a half inches of it and it not being tuned. Right. You feel like you’ve hit 13 inches at seven inches of travel dependent on who’s putting it together. Can you really get 13 inches? Is it bumped correctly? Is it strapped correctly? I mean, there’s just so much that goes into it. Whereas, like I said, I I I, I challenge any, there’s, so it’s, it’s,

6 (47m 26s):

There’s so much that can go wrong.

5 (47m 27s):

So much. I, I wanna

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (47m 29s):

Compare like the, the, the shop you, you, there’s shops all thousands and thousands of shops that sell your products in competitors and they will install them. And some require tuning and some don’t. The shops that buy the shops that require tuning, are they putting in the hours to tune them the way that you do when you go to Mojave? I

Sean P. Holman (47m 51s):

Would say some, some do. Okay.

5 (47m 53s):

Some of the shops that specify in that, like you got shops that are, that are very specific, like, like kind of race shops like, that are more focused on performance builds rather than aesthetic builds. And you got guys out there that’ll tune them.

Sean P. Holman (48m 8s):

So real quick, I just threw up on the tv. They’re lighting. That’s my old jk. Okay.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (48m 13s):

With the, looks like it’s fully drooped out.

Sean P. Holman (48m 16s):

So that’s the two two bypass. Okay. But. that is the 81 12 prototype right there. And you can see How much travel that’s getting out of it and see how compact everything fits. It’s using all the stock mounts in order. The only thing that’s not stock is the mount for the reservoir. Everything else bolts into place and you basically have the benefit of having an adjustable bypass without having to Weld on your frame and, and do all this stuff. Look, all stock,

5 (48m 39s):

Stock bumps, stops. Just bumps stop. It fits like a g on the axle. Yeah.

6 (48m 43s):

When you start trying to put a coil over on a Jeep and first off, like your Jeep’s Limited with travel ’cause of the drive line, you don’t have unlimited travel with a Jeep, you have about 11 inches. Right. And if you did a coil over, it’s not gonna change that. So Right. Why mess with it, right? Just leave that stuff alone. Took the best

5 (48m 60s):

Then 24 coil over like getting the correct spring rates and dual spring, like Yeah, it’s not, it’s not. So

Sean P. Holman (49m 5s):

That’s a three and a half inch lift on three sevens completely drooped out in tucking in the fender well with the Bilstein 81 twelves. That’s my old Jeep right there. Yeah. And you can see,

5 (49m 15s):

Is that Sean? Is that Steve? Yeah, there’s

Sean P. Holman (49m 17s):

Steve v second’s. Old Jeep. Yeah. So That wasn up there a second ago. I’ve got some more photos here just so Lightning can visualize. So there’s completely stuffed in the front.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (49m 27s):

So what I’m seeing is your coil spring is really compressed

Sean P. Holman (49m 32s):

And then that’s completely drooped out. All the other

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (49m 34s):

Drooped out. Yep. Look at that.

Sean P. Holman (49m 36s):

And so not only the, the, the dirty little secret, I’ve said this on the show before that I think is funny, is if you build a Jeep or a vehicle to go slow, you can’t go fast. But if you build one to go fast, you can still go slow. And this is the perfect example of that. This Jeep was built with those Shocks, those 81 twelves to go fast over the desert and cover ground. But I can loosen up the tubes, I can go crawl the same day without any major change except for a couple adjustments on, on the tubes on those bypass. And you can see I still have full articulation out of it, full, fully stuffed on one side and fully drooped out on the other doing anything that I’d wanna do in that thing. How

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50m 13s):

Long would it take you to make those adjustments? Five, 10 minutes if

Sean P. Holman (50m 16s):

That not even that. Yeah. Now Bill Stein’s adding click adjusters. Yeah, they’ll be, those are coming up soon. It’ll be, they’ll

6 (50m 21s):

Be released with a click. So you just go up and go click, click, click.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50m 23s):

Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Where are you guys with electronics and, and adding electronics to your,

Sean P. Holman (50m 30s):

By the way, Jay has a T R X. So Yeah,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50m 33s):

No, I’m curious like Yeah, with a T R X, that’s obviously electronically controlled. Right? How about for semi-active? Semi-active for the consumer? There’s some competitors that are out there that allow you to dial it in as you drive. Where’s Bilstein?

6 (50m 47s):

Well, all of our systems are o e m and they’re, they’re dependent on the O E M E C U. So we don’t have a standalone really package,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (50m 55s):

But it seems like we actually

5 (50m 56s):

Did, we, we didn’t, we build one for AEV, but the cost was like with the, the, that that full active with the 51 60. We did

6 (51m 2s):

Something that had like pretty limited capability as a prototype and it ended up costing a lot of money. And I think I mean

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (51m 9s):

Just too much for the consumer.

6 (51m 11s):

I think so, yeah. So So I think that system might’ve cost retail a couple grand, and I think you can probably get into these things for maybe four. Yeah. And the performance on the bypass and That wasn on a Jeep by the way, the performance on the bypass is going to blow away a 46 millimeter shock with a, you know, electronic valve. Okay. So I think the systems that we run like on the T, R X are way more advanced and, but they require a lot of inputs from the car and that’s how they work. And those were kind of derivatives of some O E m like Mercedes-Benz back to Mercedes again. That’s where that stuff was developed. And the T, R X was like a larger version. And

Sean P. Holman (51m 50s):

The Alpha Romeo sky hook, right?

6 (51m 52s):

Yeah. Sky Hook. Yeah. So well

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (51m 55s):

Remind me what that was again. Well, well,

Sean P. Holman (51m 56s):

So when That wasn a philosophy of damping that Bill Bilstein applied, whereas in the past the damping was how do you control each Wheel, right? To make sure that the body’s flat, you just control it up. The Wheel skyhook was, imagine a crane came from the sky, and what you’re trying to do is let the wheels do whatever they want under the vehicle as long as the body stays parallel to the ground. So rather trying to control each Wheel and be reactive. It’s trying to be proactive by keeping the entire body level. And so it’s just a different tuning philosophy. I think That wasn, like more don don’t know Shane if you agree, but I think That wasn like more like holistic, like a whole chassis approach rather than maybe axle or Wheel and specific Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (52m 37s):


5 (52m 37s):

Wasn, that Porsche spasm system. Like, like they’re, they, they operate off in individual dampers per corner. So, and, and, and every manufacturer’s tried to do it with mag ride with x-rays and Toyota with like, it’s kind of more like when, when, when a corner of the, of the vehicle’s getting more force put into it, hydraulic fluid will pump into that damper to firm it up.

6 (52m 57s):

Yeah. So our systems are super advanced, but they’re, they’re like all OE level. They tune on a laptop kinda like Fast and the Furious, right? Remember, right, remember he is tuning the E C U? Yes. Well, our shock tuners are in the front seat in the laptop Yeah. Tuning the suspension and, and all the inputs that are coming in. So it’s, we don’t have anything that simple I mean. Honestly, with like our 8,100 system, it would probably be really, well, I’ll tell you one thing to do a, to put a box in your car, a standalone box aftermarket box would cost a fortune to be able to talk to the Shocks and get all those inputs that you’re getting. So, I, I just don’t know if the value’s there

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 35s):

How much adjustability would you need On top of what? For example, like on my T R X, it’s got already Sand sport, Baja, all these different modes that changed the damping. Yeah. And

Sean P. Holman (53m 46s):

Among other things,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 47s):

Among other things, the whole

Sean P. Holman (53m 48s):

Car approach, right? Each one of those changes doing drive, train and throttle tip it and all sorts of stuff.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (53m 52s):

But I guess I’m looking at a vehicle that maybe it’s, again, I have an old JK that I, I got a lot of money to burn and I have a JK and I love the truck and I, I just want something that’s 81

Sean P. Holman (54m 2s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 2s):

81 12. That’s right. So at that point you don’t need on the flight adjustability. So

5 (54m 7s):

A lot, a lot of the active damping stuff too, and like a lot of the man, the, you know, the, the competition stuff that’s out there, like, we’re finding out that doesn’t behave really well in race applications. So it’s not like the speed of light, which some people assume like the stuff I mean, these vehicles are going so fast through super heavy hits that this active technology or semi-active technology or live technology isn’t reacting as fast as it should. So everyone is now in the racing’s going back to manual adjustment bypasses because you just get, you, you, it’s, it’s there

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (54m 44s):

You’re saying are, are you saying that the processing power of the computer that’s controlling damping not fast enough? It’s not. So there’s a, it’s not fast enough. Some kind of 30 millisecond delay or something that’s just, there’s

5 (54m 53s):

A delay where they’re not getting on the, the damping force.

Sean P. Holman (54m 56s):

I’m looking for my old T R X article that I wrote on the T R X first drive. I’m, I’ll see if I can pull it up here. I actually have what the bill Bilstein in the T R X versus the, the Raptor, how fast the tuning is. And it’s, it’s significantly different. It’s, it’s not like a little bit, it’s significant. I’ll see if I can find it here while you guys are talking. But Yeah, you have to, not only do you have to have a computer that’s fast enough, you also have to have mechanisms that are adjusting, making the ma you know, the mechanical changes on the fly as well.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55m 28s):

So there has to be motors of some sort. Right.

5 (55m 30s):

It’s just not reliable for ice for, for recreational applications.

6 (55m 33s):

It’s magnetic. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55m 34s):

Of magnetic for,

5 (55m 35s):

I think for recreational applications, I think it’s great if you got the money to spend for real race use applications, the old school’s gonna always, always win over the, any kind of adaptive type damping. I,

6 (55m 48s):

I think like with the case with the T R X, so we worked on that program for years.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55m 53s):

Any So I three years. So you for bringing

6 (55m 55s):

That up So, it wasn’t, it wasn’t like just like something to fall out of the sky That wasn.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (55m 58s):

So no, tell me how that got started because here,

Sean P. Holman (56m 1s):

Let me just jump in real quick. Okay. Alright. So That wasn on my, my my Raptor first drive the Raptors Fox Shocks can enable up to a thousand pounds of damping force per corner. By the way they only compression side. Whereas the T R X compression in rebound side and are infinitely, you know, adjustable 80 milliseconds responsive train with 80 milliseconds. Will the Black Hawk e squared Shocks at nearly zero shaft speed, double it by 0.5 meters per second, triples it at 1.0 meters per second and the bill tanks can go from zero to max force in just 12 milliseconds. Wow. So from 12 to 80, that shows how fast the computing power is in the T R X to be able to make those adjustments on the fly and read the terrain, it’s pretty incredible. It’s really

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (56m 40s):

Fast. Let’s talk about the Black Hawk e Squares, because I don’t want you to just blow past and say it took a couple years and some, a bunch of engineers and then we move on. Like That is a significant milestone, I think in shock technology. Were you there through all of

6 (56m 56s):

It? I was not. No, I wasn’t. I I know a little bit about it, but I was I know.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 1s):

What do you, what do you know about it?

6 (57m 3s):

Well, it’s, bill Bilstein has a lot of great electronic technologies, like I mentioned Mercedes-Benz and a lot of European cars and things like that. Our guys that worked in our oe, so we’re in the aftermarket division and we have an OE division and they wanted to apply that technology to a truck. Right. So, and it, and it comes down to s r t. We were on all the s r t vehicles on the Challenger, you know, the, what are the ones? The, the Trailhawk

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (57m 31s):


6 (57m 32s):

Trail Hawk. Yeah. So. It’s kind of like a giant version of that hawk. Our, our company is invested Oh yeah, sorry. Track hawk. Yeah. Our companies invested in that technology and they wanted to, when s r T was gonna bring out a truck, we had to be on it basically kind of on our own. Stepped up to the plate and, and developed prototypes and That wasn a multi-year process. And

Sean P. Holman (57m 51s):

I remember driving in one of those prototypes that had a four channel on a white ram where you could push the button go from marshmallow smooth to rock hard and That wasn like a real rudimentary, early, early version of what the T R X was. And I wasn’t told what That wasn going on, just that, Hey, go for a ride and check this out. Yeah. That was pretty incredible.

6 (58m 9s):

Bill Bilstein really believed our oe, r o e division really believed that this was the technology we needed to bring to that truck and they made it happen. So it’s, it, you know, they had, they had to do a lot of, you know, r and d for that Because. it was like you take, they take the valves off of a, what they had, they had to make ’em bigger. They had to make ’em flow more, make it more durable, put it in an aluminum body, make it bigger, bigger shafts. Incidentally enough, the, the front of the T R X has zone control, which is from our 81 12 by the way. Oh no kidding. The bottom out stop and stuff. And we also,

Sean P. Holman (58m 42s):


5 (58m 43s):

And we also had to get stronger shafts built. Yeah.

6 (58m 46s):

Stronger shafts. ’cause

5 (58m 47s):

We, they were blowing through ’em, That wasn, the suspension was so intense that That wasn folding piston rods. So we had to go to a

Sean P. Holman (58m 54s):

So it wasn seven eighths or something like that.

5 (58m 55s):

No, we had to go to a different material.

6 (58m 56s):

Different material together. Yeah.

5 (58m 58s):

Different material grade.

6 (58m 59s):

Yeah. 22 millimeter front piston rods.

Sean P. Holman (59m 1s):

There’s a lot of shock technology. I mean, if you remember back from our previous Bill Bilstein episode talking about that with Jason, even the wiper seal technology is different as they wear the bill Bilstein get tighter, whereas other competition can get looser and let contaminants in. And Mopar I guess was really excited because at a hundred thousand miles of wear, the shock oil still passed their test, whereas the competitor’s product was gone after 30 or 40 in their test or something like that.

5 (59m 26s):

Yeah. And this is, this goes back to our heritage though. you know what I mean? This is, this is Bilstein even trying to, to meet OE quality for the aftermarket and, and, and you know, we take quality and, and longevity very serious. you know, so like you get guys that have like Porsche nine elevens or e D C systems on their BMWs and they, they come to us because we built that system and we have a plug and play coil performance coil over kit. Whereas any other competitor, you’re gonna have to override that system.

Sean P. Holman (59m 57s):

And basically I mean make all the, the sensors dead so that you can have a a,

5 (1h 0m 0s):

Right. So you don’t have dash lights and, and, and suspension failure lights on. The other

Sean P. Holman (1h 0m 4s):

Thing I’ll say is, you know, bill Bilstein has been a tier one supplier, which is the top of the supply chain for a very long time. And what you’re getting in the aftermarket to Shane’s point about why, you know, bill stein’s are, are great Shocks is it’s not just the way the shock is manufactured or the way it works. They’re using the same type of rubbers and things that they would use on a factory vehicle that lasts 150,000 miles. You’re getting that same technology and rubbers on the bilson aftermarket Shocks. So they’re not gonna crack and squeak and all that stuff that goes into being quiet and durable. All that technology transfers over the aftermarket side too.

5 (1h 0m 39s):

I wish I would’ve brought my work phone because Von Sagan sent me an email, a guy saying that he lives up in Canada. He drives nothing but Chevy hds. One of ’em has his second set of 46 hundreds on there. The truck has 1.12 million miles on it. Wow. His new 15, the first thing he did when he bought the truck was put a set of 46. He calls ’em hds ’cause that’s old. Yeah, that’s old nomenclature. Basically

Sean P. Holman (1h 1m 7s):

It’s a direct replacement. No extra travel. Right.

5 (1h 1m 10s):

Just a OE direct fit replacement. It’s called the 4,600. 4,600. Yeah. So you know what he, you know what Steve did? Sent him a call tag for four Shocks that clocked 728,000 miles. And he said that he, he, he’s gonna happily buy another set, but he wants to send us this, these Shocks so that we can dissect them and see, he says it took 728,000 miles before he started feeling any sort of compromised damping. And your book tells you to replace ’em every 80 to a hundred. Yeah. Yeah. you know, I’m not tell, obviously not telling anyone to drive your Shocks for 700,000 miles, but I

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 1m 47s):

Think that’s, that happens a lot with a place that I work and and Ande versus many times aftermarket is you got all the guys that buy these crazy bypass Shocks and they’re, they’re tunable and they have to be rebuilt and all that stuff. But the big Bilstein, the German Bilstein is oe. And to get that business, you can’t have failures. You need to last X number of miles. They have to endure and you have to prove it. They have to endure and you have to prove it. You have prove it.

Sean P. Holman (1h 2m 17s):

They don’t want to pay for warranty.

5 (1h 2m 18s):

You know, how many 36 millimeter because ’cause I, I’ve turned wrenches in this industry. I’ve, I’ve sold in this industry. So you know how many 36 millimeter first generation Toyota Tundra dampers that I’ve taken off with 320,000 miles and the rubber grommet is still fine. Still fine. Hmm. This is another reason why I don’t understand why people always are so intrigued to go with hind joints and

Sean P. Holman (1h 2m 46s):

Yeah, well Hy Hys are awful on the street. They’re terrible and, and wear out fast and polyurethane squeaks or can crack and that’s what, you know, I’m,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 2m 53s):

You know, you know where they are because it’s shiny when you open the box. Yep, yep. Literally it looks good on Instagram But

Sean P. Holman (1h 2m 59s):

That. But that’s the thing about the Bill Steins is you are getting that OE level of durability built in your aftermarket Shocks. And that’s another reason why I like ’em. So I wanna talk too. You guys have a bunch of new stuff coming out. This is gonna be a huge year for Bill Bilstein. We talked about the 81 twelves. There’s a whole line of those coming out. Maybe Shane, if you wanna just touch really quick on what’s an AD one 12 just, and then we’ll move on. ’cause I think I want to hit up your, the, the U T V stuff and then move on to some of the truck stuff.

6 (1h 3m 27s):

Okay, well AD one 12 is a coil over That is position sensitive that has a technology called zone control that’s got a hydraulic bump stop inside of it two stage and it has a hydraulic rebound stop. Now that’s, that’s a coiler. And then we also have an 8,100 that would be a standalone shock and that could be a bypass, a smooth body. And we’re going to be releasing a new technology called a dual speed adjustable. Which ho, hold

Sean P. Holman (1h 3m 52s):

On. That’s the one I’m the most excited about.

5 (1h 3m 56s):

You don’t say

Sean P. Holman (1h 3m 57s):

Yeah, no, I hold on.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 3m 58s):

Dual speed adjustable.

6 (1h 3m 59s):

Dual speed adjustable. So it’s a new inline adjuster that goes on a reservoir and you can adjust high, high speed and low speed compression. And on the 81 12 we’re also, when when we offer that on the Tacoma, we’re also offering a J C O internal jounce stop adjuster. So 81 we 81 12. You can get the dual speed of compression and a jounce adjuster. We call that a D S A plus three adjustments.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 4m 28s):

How does that work? Meaning how is it adjusting for two? You’re talking about when you say dual speed, you’re meaning like, like

Sean P. Holman (1h 4m 34s):

Compression circuit. Rebound circuit. Okay. No, no.

5 (1h 4m 36s):

This is a, this will be a low speed and a high speed compression. Yeah. And your bottom out control’s gonna be your jounce. The jounce Got it.

Sean P. Holman (1h 4m 43s):

Yeah. Yeah.

6 (1h 4m 45s):

So at the top of the shock where the jounce is, yeah. Internally there’s an adjuster of 10 clicks where you can adjust the jounce. Okay. The bottom out. So the, the D S A is an inline, a remote reservoir adjuster. it has a gold low speed gold valve and a blue valve or knob. And basically what it’s doing is creating pressure. The gold knob will kind of set the timing of when that compression spike. It’s basically a pressure spike. So you’re controlling a spike. So if you, if you at low speed or high speed, you’re controlling the pressure in the shock and that’s what’s kind of giving you that compression adjustment. So for me what’s really useful,

Sean P. Holman (1h 5m 26s):

Putting up on the screen for, for Lightning so he can see what the inside of the Shocks look like. Yeah.

6 (1h 5m 31s):

That is the zone control

5 (1h 5m 33s):

And this is kind of our answer to internal bypass. So, so internal bypass technology has been around for quite a while, but it’s a tube within a tube that has holds drilled into it.

Sean P. Holman (1h 5m 42s):

And it, so it’s not a monotube because it’s a tube within a tube, even those Correct. It uses monotube technology.

5 (1h 5m 47s):

So that main piston where that purple color is there, that shrinks down in order to be now housed into the inner tube of an internal bypass. So

Sean P. Holman (1h 5m 57s):

When you see, I’ll just say it, I’ll be willing to say it. If you see a fox changed all the marketing, so for example, bill Bilstein does millimeters. So 60 millimeters, the two and a half inch class, but it’s actually a 2.65. When you see a Fox internal bypass where they say it’s a 2.5, it’s actually smaller because they’re giving you not the piston size like Bill Bilstein does. They’re giving you the body size. Oh and the piston’s smaller because there’s two tubes in there. Right. And on an internal bypass, that inner sleeve or inner wall is drilled at very specific places. And those are your ride zones and those are the bleed ports. But the way that shock is developed is the tuning’s very linear because you kind of tune for where you want to be really good and it, you sort of get what you get at the other ends.

Sean P. Holman (1h 6m 40s):

With zone control, you still have that full adjustment in a monotube. And now instead of making it harder at the ends with valving, you’re using this J C O for example, which is kinda like a chalice, which is an additional, think of it, a hydraulic shock inside the shock that’s that compresses and can take in a tremendous amount of pressure to slow down the shock at the ends. And that’s what’s really cool.

5 (1h 7m 3s):

You wouldn’t believe How much damping force is, is is ramped up once that first zone kicks in that

Sean P. Holman (1h 7m 8s):

Little piece where it’s blue going into blue right there, little flask on the flask there. So it’s basically, it’s the inside of the piston rod has a pad to land on that. Also telescopes and contracts inside the shock. A, you don’t have to do a jounce pad or a can or a mounting, you know, way to mount a can on the outside But that little thing inside an 8,100 replaces a two inch hydraulic bump stop that you would Weld a mount for on the outside. So from a packaging standpoint, it’s one less component, one less bracket. It’s all internal to the shock. And that’s what makes, and it’s telescoping. So you have those on the front Shocks, the J C O of your T R X.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 7m 47s):

Okay. So you’re saying this blue section up here, this the piston will go into the bottom half it,

6 (1h 7m 56s):

The other

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 7m 56s):

Blue section, it meets the blue section. So this, this is my internal jounce here. Is it going inside of it or stopping where it meets the blue? No,

5 (1h 8m 3s):

No So. it goes in. Okay. And then when the outer flask hits it, the secondary jounce kicks in

Sean P. Holman (1h 8m 9s):

So it basically goes in and once it bottoms out it pushes the whole thing in again. Wait,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 13s):

So this one goes into that one? Yeah. This, oh my god. I can can’t The telescopes, this is like a,

Sean P. Holman (1h 8m 18s):

That’s when you hit hard on your front. You hear the dunk on the front end of your T R X. That’s those

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 22s):

Engaging, looks like

6 (1h 8m 23s):

The engineers call it a decoupled piston de.

5 (1h 8m 26s):

So you know what’s bizarre? One of the, one of our engineers that was heavily involved in the project beats the life out of his fourth generation four runner. The life, the life outta him. He So it just had to go through a full frame reconstruction because the frame was cracked in all kinds of different locations. It’s pedal of the metal all the time in the desert. But we took that flask apart that he took that flask apart, that that J C o and he says it actually performs better with all the hard miles on it than it did on the initial time that they put it in.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 8m 59s):

Hmm. It’s been worked in. That’s

5 (1h 9m 1s):

Interesting. Yeah. He says it’s better than new. He, he was blown away.

6 (1h 9m 4s):

So in the 81 twelves, the Ds a plus, we’re gonna have an adjuster knob that you can adjust that j c o on the top. You can

5 (1h 9m 11s):

Externally adjusted externally adjust for for harder hits. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 9m 14s):

You’ve I mean who’s, I guess it’s Holman who’s using that? How many of your customers? Yes please. So we talk about things like Diesel inappropriateness where you buy a big Diesel pickup truck when really you, they

Sean P. Holman (1h 9m 27s):

Commute around town without ever telling.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 9m 28s):

Yeah. Yeah. Where you should have a gas or a three liter instead of a 6.6 liter Diesel. How many guys, and does it drive you crazy? And it’s probably guys like me by the way. ’cause I love shiny objects, right? And I wanna buy the best thing I can afford. How many guys are buying the best looking

Sean P. Holman (1h 9m 42s):

Thing you can afford?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 9m 43s):

Yeah. How many guys are doing shock inappropriateness buying tons, too much shock for their truck.

5 (1h 9m 48s):

Tons more than you can imagine. And

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 9m 49s):

How do you do? How do you out of it? Here’s

5 (1h 9m 51s):

A nice about this. Well you qualify you, it’s back to qualifying their needs, their want. FARs outweighs their needs these days. But the beautiful thing about this shock is you might not need it, but you’re not gonna suffer because of it. Because of our ability to really tune a great ride zone because of the support you get on the hard hits and on the rebound. Whereas an internal bypass, as Sean was saying, if you’re trying to tune that internal bypass for bottom out control, you’ve just tore your ride zone up. It’s one or the other. So you can’t tune a good ride zone and tune out, bottom out control this, you get a super cush ride and you’re not reliant on the damping on the main piston.

Sean P. Holman (1h 10m 39s):

So a guy like me, and you know how I Wheel Shane knows how I will, I like to drive 40 to 60 miles an hour in the desert cover ground to wherever my next stop is. ’cause I like to get a to a place I wanna check out petroglyphs or an old mine or whatever and do that a couple times, then hit camp by like 3, 3 30. So the sun’s up and you can enjoy camp for a while. And so we might cover that a hundred miles in a few hours. Well this is like magic for me ’cause I get that comfort that’s gonna give me, you know, keep me in the vehicle driving fast without fatiguing. But if there’s a truck gobbler around around the next corner that I didn’t see, or a washout or a whoop section and I go into it too hot because I wasn’t anticipating it, boom.

Sean P. Holman (1h 11m 21s):

I’ve got the best of both worlds on the new DSA plus setup. Mm.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 11m 24s):

This whole time discussing these internal jounce controls. We can’t do this justice. Like you need to see this exploded view of the internal parts.

Sean P. Holman (1h 11m 34s):

Offroad Bilstein dot com. It’s the website. Do

5 (1h 11m 37s):

You wanna see a pull up Wheel every weekends on YouTube? Oh yeah. So this is, this is a customer of mine. Okay. Puts it on a truck with 155,000 miles. Doesn’t guss at anything, doesn’t do anything. And

6 (1h 11m 51s):

Actually go to our website. Is it on there? Yeah. Bill Bilstein us

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 11m 56s): Yeah.

6 (1h 11m 57s):

YouTube or Bill Bilstein. YouTube. Okay. We did a 5,100 versus an 8,100.

Sean P. Holman (1h 12m 3s):

I saw that. It’s amazing.

6 (1h 12m 5s):

But so So

5 (1h 12m 6s):

I was out in the desert with this customer of mine. So he got a lot of grief when he first put his video out saying, oh, you know, he basically did the 81 12 at speed and, and he got all this, you know, chatter on the on Well wait,

Sean P. Holman (1h 12m 21s):

Wait, is this one right here? That,

5 (1h 12m 24s):

So that’s me there. So we’re, we’re putting a brand new set on his truck so everyone can see that nothing’s been modified.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 12m 31s):

Okay. You’re taking the, the boxes outta the back of

5 (1h 12m 33s):

The truck. 80. Okay. We’re gonna take off his 81 twelves and 81 hundreds that he already had on there

6 (1h 12m 39s):

With new ones

5 (1h 12m 40s):

To put these on so people know they’re right out the box on a clapped out tundra. Sorry Ian, this thing is, is

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 12m 50s):

It’s, it looks beat up from the FE height. Yeah. So

Sean P. Holman (1h 12m 52s):

We’ll fast forward here. They’re basically walk you through. But I want you to see the back and forth between these two setups Offroad so you can understand. Well let,

6 (1h 13m 0s):

Let’s also get some background on this first. So we, we posted Ian’s site or Ian’s video video on our site and it

5 (1h 13m 8s):

Got more hits than any video globally. Why? Yeah, for us. ’cause people wanna, people wanna, well

6 (1h 13m 14s):

You’ll see in a second, but people just didn’t believe it. We got like 2 million views on our But don

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 13m 19s):

Don’t understand what the dispute is over because

5 (1h 13m 21s):

They’re saying, oh, he is not going the same speed. He, he’s not going this same speed of any shot can go the same speed.

Sean P. Holman (1h 13m 26s):

So this is the 51 hundreds or

5 (1h 13m 28s):

Stock? No, that’s 81 12 at 15 miles an hour. But this is up right up at the foot of blow sand. Okay. This is

Sean P. Holman (1h 13m 34s):

Heavy stuff. That wasn big whoops. Yeah. Bottom out top out bottom. 52 hundreds

5 (1h 13m 38s):

At 20 P s I. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (1h 13m 39s):

15 mile per hour. Look How much air, it is hopping under that. These

6 (1h 13m 43s):

Whoops are gigantic too. Oh yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 13m 44s):

He’s coming off the ground by almost a foot. Here’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 13m 47s):

20 miles an hour

6 (1h 13m 49s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 13m 49s):

You can, so you see the speed sensitivity starting to come into play here.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 13m 53s):

It’s a lot smoother at 20 miles an hour.

Sean P. Holman (1h 13m 55s):

And now he’s, he’s not hopping off the ground. So he,

5 (1h 13m 58s):

This is gonna take off the road.

6 (1h 13m 59s):

We’re back to the 5,100.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 0s):

Oof. Wow. So now it’s bottom

Sean P. Holman (1h 14m 2s):

Out, top out,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 3s):

Sideways. He can’t even control it. No.

Sean P. Holman (1h 14m 4s):

Us leaving the trail while

5 (1h 14m 5s):

The tires aren’t on the ground, he can’t steer it. Right.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 9s):

So now he’s at 30 miles per hour.

5 (1h 14m 10s):

This is as fast as we could go. Go in these with without feeling that That wasn. Dangerous. Unsafe.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 18s):

Okay. So 30 miles an hour, again, truck is just no control. It’s all over the place. The back the ground.

Sean P. Holman (1h 14m 23s):

So this is a non reservoir smooth body of 5,146 millimeters,

5 (1h 14m 26s):

55 miles an hour in the 81 12.

Sean P. Holman (1h 14m 29s):

Same, the same track, same section. Wait, what?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 31s):

That’s yeah,

Sean P. Holman (1h 14m 32s):

Exactly. That’s that, that’s a bolt-on shock lighting. That’s a bolt-on shock. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 36s):

Wait, okay, but did you go I see the debate now. Watch, watch. They’re like, so 55 going in faster, floating over the tops now just,

5 (1h 14m 44s):

Just hammering it. Okay.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 14m 47s):

81 twelves and 55 miles an hour. It’s soaking ’em all up and he’s going right over like a, like a motocross rider or a Supercross just right over, just right over the tops of the world. They

5 (1h 14m 55s):

Probably, they’re probably good two feet apart by one foot deep. Maybe more than more probably maybe T foot.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 15m 3s):

Okay. So, but he, I see the debate though. He didn’t do the slower runs, he just did the faster Right.

5 (1h 15m 7s):

You couldn’t do, couldn’t go faster. Faster. You could go is 30 miles an hour before Because it would

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 10s):

Rip your front suspension off. He was, he

5 (1h 15m 11s):

He he was bearing his head into the roof of the truck. Gotcha. And this is also a testament to how good the 5,100 is. Yeah. Right. Because a lot of Shocks would’ve folded in half

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 22s):

And he was leaving the ground full stuff. Full droop, full stuff. And

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 15m 26s):

Alright, we need to Alright, tell people where they can find this video so they can see.

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 28s):

So this is on the Bill Bilstein YouTube channel. So just go to YouTube, go to Bilstein. It’s like the third or fourth video down right now. But again, you can see

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 15m 34s):

I name is Ian with a Toyota Tundra, a black

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 37s):


5 (1h 15m 37s):

You’ll see it Wheel every weekend. He’s a cu he’s a great customer of mine. He’s a, he’s a brand advocate. Also rebuilds other brands and you know, obviously he’s not gonna lose money because he loves Bill

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 15m 46s):

Van 15 miles per hour with the 51 hundreds. It’s just pogoing like I’ve never seen. Oh yeah. Wow. Undrivable

5 (1h 15m 52s):

Purpose built, purpose

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 52s):

Built damper. He’s 20 miles an hour at the 81 hundreds and he is no longer leaving the ground. Yeah.

5 (1h 15m 56s):

It’s a purpose built damper. It’s, it’s, it’s,

Sean P. Holman (1h 15m 59s):

And this is also, this is my experience with them as well. And I did a off-road to SEMA a few years ago with Shane and the Bilstein crew where we had 81 twelves on tacos. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 16m 8s):

Los Angeles to Las Vegas Powerway

Sean P. Holman (1h 16m 10s):

To Las Vegas power off

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 16m 11s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 16m 11s):

Las Vegas. Yeah. Covering every bit of ground that you could imagine in the California desert and Nevada desert. And you know, there were places where there were massive gouts, square edge dropoffs where we’re going 60 miles an hour and all of a sudden there’s a two foot drop and you could, you know, you pucker and you couldn’t even feel it. The truck just sailed right through. There are sections where we’re crawling, there are sections for where there are. Whoops. So I’ve firsthand experienced the 81, 12 8100 combo on a Tacoma. Not a tundra, but I can tell you the massive amount of improvement. And those trucks only had those Shocks and upper control arm and I think divas in the back. Right. Yeah. Everything else was stock.

5 (1h 16m 44s):

And here, here’s another thing I want to get, I wanna mention too is, is is everyone, I think that the word travel in in our industry is, is often oversold. Okay. So people think that they can just get a ton of travel because they changed the arm. Yeah. A control arm swap is, is is simply and honestly to regain castor out of a right height that you lost from lifting it, there’s added performance dependent on what you do. But is it really getting more travel or is putting a good quality shock in place giving you the confidence to use the available travel that

Sean P. Holman (1h 17m 20s):

It has and, and I’d rather have clean travel, right? I’d rather have a 10 inch travel truck or an even an eight inch travel truck. And you know, not to, not to mention, you know, other brands out there. But a perfect example is a, a stock Colorado zero two that has a different kind of shock, shock technology. it has like four and a half inches of stroke and like eight inches of travel. And you can feel that’s, that shock on those trucks is amazing. How much energy they absorb and it’s really clean travel. But that’s a perfect example of a stock truck that doesn’t have very much travel at all yet. You’ll go to some of these trucks, even even a raptor like a second gen Raptor before live valve especially would blow through travel at slow speed.

Sean P. Holman (1h 17m 60s):

They were really good on top of the website, like 55, 60. They would start to fade away faster than that. But at slow speed just like the tundra was in this photo or in this video, bottom out, top out, bottom out, top out on some of the bigger desert whips. And you’d have to get speed but at that point to get enough speed you wouldn’t really feel comfortable driving a stock truck with no cage and all that. So there’s trade-offs all over the place. But my point is, a truck with better travel doesn’t make it a better riding vehicle than one with less travel. It’s all about the shock technology. How much valving and how it’s valved inside that makes it work. Yeah.

6 (1h 18m 31s):

This goes back to what Junior said at the beginning. You’d put the long travel kit, the 13 inch travel I

5 (1h 18m 38s):

Put truck, I put that truck and not even the driver the, he’s a great driver but I would put a beginner driver in the seat of his truck up against any second or third Gen Raptor.

6 (1h 18m 49s):


5 (1h 18m 50s):

Hmm. 100%.

6 (1h 18m 51s):

Or, or if you take a long travel kit, you got a long travel kit travel kit, you did the coil over in the bypass. It’s not tuned. It’s probably gonna perform. Probably not as good as that. Right?

5 (1h 19m 1s):

Definitely not as pretty, definitely not as good as that.

6 (1h 19m 4s):

Well that’s the whole, the whole, the whole angle of the 81 12. So why did we do this? There’s a market for it. We we’re in Southern California, we drive around, we see guys with Reservoir Shocks. People ask us about it. So what did we do different? We made a position sensitive reservoir shock, which I think on a Tacoma might be the only one on the market with internal jounce, with an internal R C O rebound cutoff. That’s not the same as everything on the market. It offers this technology. So

5 (1h 19m 32s):

This technology, it’s such good technology. Basically what we did was we wrapped up a long travel kit into a bolt-on coil over

Sean P. Holman (1h 19m 43s):

And basically

5 (1h 19m 44s):

It’s two for the

Sean P. Holman (1h 19m 44s):

Chassis. We’re able to find a shock that has similar performance characteristics on the edge of the envelope as a bypass shock in probably the middle of its envelope. Right. But give you the ride on top of it. So, and the packaging, you don’t have to worry about packaging it with tubes where it’s gonna hit your frame or your tire’s gonna rub ’cause you’re basically using a narrow or smooth body shock ’cause you don’t have external tubes sticking out of it. So you’re able to get that type of performance bolt in. You don’t have to Weld anything. You don’t have to put offset spacers to move the shock away because the body’s not this huge body. You also have RCOs and JCOs, you also have zone control. You also have adjustability. I mean it’s just like, it’s just incredible.

Sean P. Holman (1h 20m 24s):


6 (1h 20m 24s):

The new thing with the D S A is adding that adjustability to this tech. you know, probably should have did that when we came out with it. We didn’t have it. But now we do So

5 (1h 20m 33s):

I have dealers out there that are diehard our competitions brands. Right. But they sell obviously what the consumer’s asking for. And, and I have guys that are longtime our competitions, like they, they, they sell a lot of our competition’s goods and, and, and I’ve had guys come up to me and they say, you just have to drive it. Yeah. There there, there’s no way I can explain. You just gotta drive it. Like, and these are guys that have been selling our other, our, our competitors for years and believe that their performance Bolton stuff is just the best. The cats meow until they drive this. And then they’re like, you just have to drive.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 21m 6s):

Well I mean, look, look some of your competition, they’re really good at branding. Right? A hundred percent. you know, some of ’em they sell more merchandise than they do Shocks maybe. Right? Right. I mean we see it at all the shows and they make some great stuff. But I think a lot of it is guys want the best they can afford. Like we started saying, you know, a while back and a lot of times it’s maybe the wrong part for the job or they’re not getting the support they need. So they’re buying a part that may require support

Sean P. Holman (1h 21m 38s):

But they can only afford the part and they’re not doing everything around it to make that port part perform at its peak level. You were able to mount it, but there’s some other things that go into a kit that really allowed to perform. Truly with this setup, you’ve got a bolt-in performance shock that doesn’t require

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 21m 53s):

Anybody else. No, no maintenance, no updates. You don’t even

Sean P. Holman (1h 21m 55s):

Need a, a hydraulic bump stop. The, the

5 (1h 21m 56s):

Seal head assemblies on these things are bolt. I have customers that have gone 80, 90,000 miles with these things already and they’re operating

Sean P. Holman (1h 22m 2s):

And, and think about all the performance trucks out there with a aluminum lower arm. When the raptor first came out, people were cracking ’em in half because they wanted to add a hydraulic bump stop. And so there’s kits where you put a, a steel pad that surrounds it so that you have a, a landing pad for the hydraulic bump stop. But a lot more manufacturers either for performance or lightweight unsprung weight or adding a lower aluminum arm where it’s not gonna be great for you to add a hydraulic bump stop because of the force that goes into that arm. Again, the Bilstein with the J C O, you don’t need to do it. It’s all internal to the shock. And all that

5 (1h 22m 33s):

Force is being generated into the chassis, to the top mount assembly. It’s, it’s, it’s going nowhere else.

Sean P. Holman (1h 22m 38s):

Yeah. It’s not going into the arm. It’s going right back up into where it’s mounted

5 (1h 22m 41s):

On the frame. You’re generating force where the force is intended to be generated. Alright,

Sean P. Holman (1h 22m 44s):

So real quick, I wanted to pivot over to U T V and by the way, they’re, they’re gorgeous. You guys have a new line of U T V Shocks, which are stunning to look at, but you just proved first place stock vehicle in a couple races where the, the performance and when I was with you guys in Moab, I got to hang out with some of your U T V drivers and who were just blown away by the shock technology

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 6s):

In these things.

6 (1h 23m 7s):

I mean the U T V was perfect for this zone control technology that we have in the 81 12 because like 81 12 it’s on a vehicle with limited travel. Now you have a U T V with like 20 inches of travel, like little

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 21s):

Trophy trucks now. Right.

6 (1h 23m 22s):

Trophy cars. Now you’re just like, just going over stuff that you wouldn’t believe that’s like

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 27s):

Insane. And now, now some of them have ca or like you’ve seen the, the latest Polaris line, right? Is it Polaris or Can-am one of ’em. They like it looks like a miniature Jeep now it’s a car.

6 (1h 23m 35s):

Yeah. Yeah,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 23m 36s):

It’s a car. So Yeah.

6 (1h 23m 38s):

You know, if you can’t beat ’em, join them. I mean we go out to the desert, we go to Moab, there’s just as many UTVs as Jeeps in Moab go out to tls way more UTVs than trucks and stuff. So it’s like, it’s a huge market and Well the main thing is this technology is perfect for a U T V, the zone control technology and the, the Shocks are, they’re all aluminum body, like you said, they’re beautiful. They’ve got some gold anodized bits, hard anodized inside and out. They’re four way adjustable. So they’re jounce control adjustable high low speed compression adjustable and rebound adjustable.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 14s):

Are these the ones Holman that we saw at sema? Yes. Where I got us in trouble for? Yes. For yelling OB next to the president of Bill Bilstein. Thanks. Thanks for that lighting. Yeah, those were jewelry. So if they work half as good as they look, oh, they’re, they’re insane. I’ll take two sets this, they’re,

5 (1h 24m 32s):

They’re absolutely insane.

6 (1h 24m 33s):

It’s insanity. Here’s the,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 24m 35s):

Oh my Lord, they’re gorgeous.

6 (1h 24m 37s):

Like when we demo it, we have to like, we have this crazy race car driver that, that helped develop these or did a lot of the development on this, especially the driving part and the valving. He’s done all the tuning on our, on our recreational packages. His name’s Wes real famous guy on Bilstein, but,

5 (1h 24m 55s):

And then we got our support guy, Nathan. Yeah. Who races a trophy truck.

6 (1h 24m 59s):

But anyways, it, it’s so plush when you get in it. I’m like, okay, well Wess, you need to drive, you need to drive with someone who knows what it’ll do. Because if, if you don’t know any better, you’re gonna think the thing’s gonna bottom out. It feels too soft. You just start romping over stuff and it’s just soaks it up Insane.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 25m 19s):

How aggressive do you guys seek drivers that are running competitors’ products? Because you know, yours is better.

5 (1h 25m 28s):

That’s the thing is we, we really don’t. You don’t. Yeah. Yeah. We really don’t. Here here’s something you gotta understand about Bilstein. That that That is it one of those Offroad community needs to understand about Bill Bilstein? Is Bill Bilstein. When, when you’re discussing our competition on light truck and, and, and Offroad, you’re discussing Fox King Rad Flow, a d s, the Elk Elka, these guys of the world. However, understand that these guys only do Offroad and Light truck. We’re We Are doing OE business for Lucid for Tesla. We’re doing, we’re doing the aftermarket for Porsche nine 11. We’re do I mean we do motor home Shocks. We do, you know, your wife’s minivan.

5 (1h 26m 7s):

We’ll have Shocks for those I mean we do our, our our our aftermarket coverage is like no other shock manufacturer’s footprint globally. We do everything. So we can’t just put all of our eggs in Offroad. We just gotta sit back and and l and work with what they let us work with. Because our tuning segment is just as high a performing as our Offroad segment. you know what I mean? So that’s, it’s really tough to get the buy-in to just go do all this stuff. ’cause me and Shane want to, we fight for it. We argue, we we

Sean P. Holman (1h 26m 40s):

A M G L 500. What do you got for that?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 26m 44s):

It’s sack, I think.

Sean P. Holman (1h 26m 45s):

Yeah, that’s, well that’s what you have on there now. Yeah. Shouldn’t take those suckers off. Should

5 (1h 26m 49s):

Be Bilstein. See,

Sean P. Holman (1h 26m 50s):

Look at that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 26m 51s):

Well a lot of guys are going to coil overs on that car. They don’t like the active body control could install hydraulic. So they’re scared. Mine has not failed. Knock on wood. They haven’t failed yet. I’m not on knock on wood before you wood, but a lot of guys are, they do it preemptively. They take off the, the a, b, C hydraulic lines, which apparently are spaghetti throughout the whole belly of the car. But they pull it all out and do and do s

5 (1h 27m 13s):

Like KWS or something

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 14s):

BC Okay. BC is the don don’t know who makes the BC stuff. Yeah,

5 (1h 27m 17s):

Those are pretty aggressive. Those are pretty, they’re they they’re sprung pretty heavy.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 21s):

I don’t know, it’s just the only one that seemed to make that particular fitment where it’s, whether it’s the, the, the bill aluminum purchase or whatever. But they’re specific to, we don’t have to talk about Mercedes here, but Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 31s):

You know, we should talk about trucks. Terra sport. Oh

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 34s):

Yeah. Okay.

Sean P. Holman (1h 27m 35s):

A lot of the truck guys. You’re

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 27m 36s):

What can, can I, before you go to Terra Sport, so we’re talking about the, the jewelry up on screen right here. So for your your U T V line, what is set? What will a set set me back

5 (1h 27m 47s):

6,500 bucks. Loaded 65, which frames everything ready to bolt on the vehicle. Nice part about this is there’s, there’s just, they’re, they’re so tuneable externally, you could probably outta the box, get ’em to behave the way you want ’em to. However, if you can’t, if, if you are demanding more of the tuning, there’s three different zones that could be re-tuned in the shock. You can retune the main piston. You can re you can retune the R C O. The J C o. So at the end of the day, this shock will behave however you want it to behave in all zones.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 20s):


5 (1h 28m 21s):

There’s no way it won’t. So

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 23s):

6,500 bucks, all four corners loaded on a U T V. Let’s just go back real quick before we jump into Terra Sport. Your D ss A pluses or 81 twelves, what are you looking at that for in

5 (1h 28m 33s):

Tacoma? Those are just a hair over our competition with so much more to offer. I think they’re, they’re 1400 bucks a, a corner for the front bypasses are, I think 1100 bucks a piece for the rear. And it’s a lot of

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 45s):

Performance for the money. Tons.

5 (1h 28m 46s):

Yeah. That’s a lot of bang for the buck.

6 (1h 28m 49s):

And if you think about it, if you did a long travel kit, got a bypass, got a bump, stop, there’s,

5 (1h 28m 53s):

There’s 13 grand paid

6 (1h 28m 55s):

Some paid some guy on, on meth in Lucerne Valley.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 28m 58s):

Right. Well

Sean P. Holman (1h 28m 59s):

Let’s talk it on, I gotta show shame my new shirt that says smoked brisket not meth. Yeah. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 4s):

So we have that’s, I just made smoked brisket and not DPFs. I have an apron at work.

Sean P. Holman (1h 29m 11s):

Oh, funny. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 12s):

Going back to the 81 twelves, your, your group that you work with in the, the engineering team How much time. Do you have invested in that man hours? If you had to guess all of ’em, that’s

6 (1h 29m 23s):

A lot.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 24s):

No, but I mean like,

6 (1h 29m 25s):

Well before we, hundreds

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 27s):

And hundreds of man hours. Thousands.

6 (1h 29m 30s):

I couldn’t even, let’s just say that we, when we did the first 81 12,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 29m 33s):

Like you work on it every day for two years.

6 (1h 29m 35s):

I’ll just put it to you this way. We did the first 81 12, we bought a Tacoma 2015 and we probably worked on it for about eight months, pretty much every day with probably about five or six people like working in and out of it. That included benchmarking competition, including tuning in the desert, including, you know, a couple pre-run Yep. Across the Mojave Desert to do our 2016 launch. So a lot, a lot of time. We wanted to make the best damper you can get in that segment. And I think that we did. So

Sean P. Holman (1h 30m 8s):

Going back to best damper in the segment, you guys have branched out, you now have your terra sport line, which is for like CUVs, so light off rotors. Yep. And so that market is actually exploding right now. Whether it’s a Subaru Outback, you know, A X U V or, or maybe a Rav four adventure, things like that. And now Nito has a new Tire line. The recon, the recon grappler people are just going deeper and exploring more in those. And that might be a starter off-road vehicle or it might be your secondary car if you have a truck for maybe your, your kid or your wife or something like that. So now you guys have some new strut technology that can bolt into their, into those that give you more the performance that you would expect from some of your MON two products.

6 (1h 30m 48s):

It’s a alternative to a spacer. This really reminds me of the 5,100 ride height adjustable. Yeah. Everyone was doing spacers and they sucked. They over traveled the car, they ruined your car. So the, the terra sport is a mild lift for a U v or like a maverick. We’re doing the maverick, which is kind, which would be awesome. A C by pick CV pickup. Yeah. And we’re preloading the stock coil, we’re getting about an inch and a half lift. We’re giving you a little bit more clearance for tires. So you can go up a size or two and get in using

5 (1h 31m 16s):

The stock Wheel in the factory offset if you want to, because the coil bucket on the strutt sits so much higher, which is the limitation when you’re trying to go with a larger Tire on a stock Wheel because the Tire runs into the coil pond.

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 29s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 31m 30s):

Oh right. So,

6 (1h 31m 31s):

So these things are pretty limited, you know, and, and I go to the forest, even in the desert, you, you see guys with CUVs out there and it’s like you need a little like just an inch and a half and bump a little bit bigger. Tire is goes, yeah, they got two

Sean P. Holman (1h 31m 42s):

Extra inches of ground clearance, now you’re up to eight and a half inches of ground clearance or something like that.

6 (1h 31m 46s):

So, it’s safer, right? ’cause you’re not gonna punch your oil pan as easily and you’d get all trained tires and you’re not gonna pop your tires and go for a walk.

5 (1h 31m 55s):

Just so everyone don’t think they’re mono tube technology. Most of the stru assemblies are gonna be twin, be twin tube technology. Yep. Anything on the rear that’s a standalone unit. That is accompanied with a coil spring that’s not on the damper will be a mono tube shock.

6 (1h 32m 9s):

Yeah. So it’s super easy. What is it, like 500 bucks for a, for a set?

5 (1h 32m 13s):

Yeah. It’s a no-brainer.

6 (1h 32m 13s):

It’s like a no-brainer. Rides

Sean P. Holman (1h 32m 15s):

Better, makes more ground clearance, more room for bigger tires. More performance. Yeah. Don’t have to use a spacer. Don’t have to use,

5 (1h 32m 21s):

You know, you know, this is, and this is great for the customer that’s at 80,000 miles on his stock dampers or

Sean P. Holman (1h 32m 26s):

Used car customer. Yeah. So he just bought one in, you know, secondary market and they go, he wanted to build this thing up,

5 (1h 32m 31s):

Not even build it up. But this is a great replacement damper to get a little bit better aesthetics out of it. To run a nice large Tire a little bit larger. Tire the guy that doesn’t wanna go overboard and run the roof rack and the awning on his, on his cross track. you know what I mean? Doesn’t wanna decorate it for Overland, but yet wants to

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 32m 49s):

Decorate his grate,

5 (1h 32m 50s):

But yet, but yet wants to optimize his ground clearance. Put a little larger Tire on it, but it’s a, it’s a great go-to for maintenance.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 32m 59s):

I’ve got a friend with a, a Bronco sport that I think you’re talking about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

6 (1h 33m 3s):

Exactly. We’ll be doing the Bronco sport this year. I’ve

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 6s):

A friend with the Bronco Sport Sport also. We might be a vehicle and she, she takes it everywhere. I mean she takes it way deeper than she could. ’cause those things are really pretty capable out of the box. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s shocking

5 (1h 33m 15s):

To get there. Ford Escape. They’re pretty good.

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 16s):

Yeah, right. you know,

6 (1h 33m 18s):

I’ve seen seen one go uphill revenge. Yeah. I

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 21s):

Mean video. I mean it’s, it’s amazing. I mean a sport. Really.

5 (1h 33m 23s):

Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn’t believe there’s a whole group of like Subaru guys that go out there during e j s and just to show

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 28s):

People up. Yeah. You see Guy, the dude on the Yamaha R one who did it the other day. Go, go. All right. If you guys want to throw, oh, I did.

5 (1h 33m 35s):

I did

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 33m 36s):

Wait a sport bike. R

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 37s):

One Yamaha R one on Hell’s Revenge. That’s a

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 33m 40s):

Thousand cc Sport bikes. He’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 33m 41s):

Jumping it over stuff and hitting ledges with it. Dude, it’s awesome. Last thing I got for you guys is, one of the things people wanted is a different coding technology for Bill Bilstein. And you guys have a new coating, new color scheme coming out for your aftermarket shop Shocks that’s being rolled out as products are updated. Maybe just talk about that real quick and let people know that there’s, I I think they’re beautiful. I think they look fantastic.

6 (1h 34m 2s):

Yeah. The 81 12 8100 line is gonna be Evo Gray with the new graphic and we like it too. I think it’s gonna be great. What

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 34m 9s):

Is the Evo Gray? what is that like a gun medal or? Yeah,

5 (1h 34m 11s):

It’s a

Sean P. Holman (1h 34m 12s):

Concrete Haiti gun medal. Somewhere between those I think. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 34m 15s):

So this is like your favorite coating on the Willwood brakes.

Sean P. Holman (1h 34m 18s):

Well that’s the, that’s the mil spec anodizing, which I think is super sexy. Yeah.

6 (1h 34m 22s):

So that’s coming out. We’ll be releasing that over the next year, like, and then releasing new applications. Like the JK is gonna come out with Evo Gray and then 61 12 51 60. We’re going, we’re doing a clear code over this zinc, so that’s rolling out, that’s gonna be nice. But we’re really excited about the evo. I think that’s gonna be really nice.

Sean P. Holman (1h 34m 41s):

I think the aesthetic wise, it looks great. Let’s just hit really quick. 51 60 is basically a, a reservoir 5,100. Yes. And then 61 12 is basically with a 60 millimeter piston. Yep. With a little less technology than what you’d get in the 81. A hundred eighty one twelve setup. Kind

5 (1h 34m 59s):

Of a lot of less technology, but it’s a, it’s a, it’s a great, it’s like

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 2s):

A big 5,100, right? Yeah. Yeah.

5 (1h 35m 3s):

It’s a, it’s like a giant, so

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 4s):

It’s like a 5,100 with the bigger piston.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 6s):

Why am I going above the 51 to the 61 12?

5 (1h 35m 8s):

It comes with a spring. It’s, it’s a much larger diameter shock. So it

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 12s):

Think Tacoma. It’s, it’s the Tacoma four runner guy. And that setup is I mean. I was telling you when we were at Overland Expo and I was hanging out in the Bilstein booth, everybody who came in was like 61 12 and that was kind of the joke. Right, right, right. But that’s what it is. I mean. It’s basically butter a, a bigger piston 5,100. So more oil volume, more spring rate, more resistance to, you know, you know, rebound and compression more valving and then comes preloaded with the spring. So Toyota guys love these things.

5 (1h 35m 37s):

Best bang for the buck. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 38s):

You can’t get a better set of Shocks best bang

5 (1h 35m 40s):

For the buck.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 40s):

Buck and those from, what do you, do you recall

5 (1h 35m 42s):

They retail, I think they, I think

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 44s):

One 12, right?

5 (1h 35m 45s):

8, 810 bucks I think is is like map pricing? Yeah, they retail for $900. Is that per corner? No, that’s for a whole set in the front. For

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 54s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 35m 54s):

For axle? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Eight, 800 bucks for a

Sean P. Holman (1h 35m 57s):

Front. So under $2,000 you basically have killer suspension. I i we put ’em on a four runner and it just trans, it’s transformative on that. We had a four runner T r D pro and we had put the 61 12 set up on it and just it’s night and day difference. You won’t even believe how just a Bolton and that’s not even stepping up to all the technology in 81 12. So if you’re looking for more but the 81 twelves are out of your reach a little bit, you would not be disappointed by, you know, putting a set of 61 twelves on. It’s the perfect middle ground between a fifty one hundred and eighty one twelve. All

5 (1h 36m 29s):

OE Grommets uses your factory top mount assembly. So you’re not dealing with any noise or any popping or grinding. Not that you do with the 81 twelves either, but you know, the 81 12 with the J C O can be a little bit audible at low velocity inputs because of the jounce. But these are just like, like Sean said, man, they’re just the best bang for the buck. Bulletproof, no maintenance.

6 (1h 36m 51s):

And, and we make ’em for GM 1500, all the half ton trucks. Yeah. For Ram F one 50. And we accompany the 51 60 with the reservoir in the back, the 61 12. You’ll be able to drive it harder if you want. So you need to

Sean P. Holman (1h 37m 3s):

Balance out that performance

6 (1h 37m 4s):

And, and you need to have something with a little bit more performance in the back. So we do do a 51 60. So,

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 37m 9s):

So we get a lot of guys with Threequarter and one ton trucks. Not duallys, but let’s talk Threequarter ton truck, 2500, 3500 F 2 50, 3 50. If you’re pulling a trailer, you’re doing some light offroading hunting stuff like that. You, you’re, you’re Offroad maybe two times a month, you know, on the weekends. What’s the right shock for that guy to get the best on road smooth ride but

Sean P. Holman (1h 37m 33s):

Not get beat up

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 37m 34s):

Off it, not beat up when he’s going duck hunting.

5 (1h 37m 36s):

So again, all of our stuff is purpose built. So if this guy has a bone stock, 2,500 hd Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 37m 42s):

Bone stock, no lift, he needs

5 (1h 37m 43s):

A 4,600. Okay. If he, if he’s, if he’s turned up the torsion bars to, to get a little bit more leveled Right height, he has the option of a 5,100 or a 51 60 and and the same with all the, even the solid axle F rams and the and the F two 50. Same thing. Yeah. Problem with, with a lot of guys that wanna run these 51 hundreds on stock height trucks. The biggest problem with this is, is, is we get, we maximize droop in, in, in, in, in all in all applications. So the problem with running a 5,100 that’s intended for a two, two and a half inch lift on your stock truck is if when you unweight that front end, like you go over like a freeway, it can actually unseat the spring at full droop.

5 (1h 38m 23s):

People need to understand that, that Shocks are purpose built. They’re there for a reason. We build a two and a half inch lift for a leveling spring.

Sean P. Holman (1h 38m 30s):

Yeah. It’s not a 4,600 and then a 5,100 is better. It’s right. Lifted versus stock height. Correct. Right. Because you wanna have the, the right collapsed extended length so you don’t pull out brake lines or unseat the spring or any of that. Got it, you wanna overextend your CV axles that all of that.

5 (1h 38m 44s):

It’s the same technology, same damper tuning’s a bit different because when you increase right height, the tune of the shock changes. So it’s not like we just go, plus you’re

Sean P. Holman (1h 38m 52s):

Compensated for bigger Tire that’s put

5 (1h 38m 53s):

On lifted trucks. Right. So, so, so there’s more rebound valving in there. So it, you kind of sacrifice the tune when you’re, when you’re, when you’re not lifted, but you’re putting something that’s valve for a lifted vehicle on a stock. So let’s

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 6s):

Roll through a 4 40, 600 direct replacement, no lift, 5,100 direct replacement. Nothing needed, but it’s for a lifted application. A little bit more valving, you’re still, you’re working with a a 46 millimeter piston, right? Yeah. 1.96 inch, nine

6 (1h 39m 21s):

Five, something like that. Roughly 46 millimeter, a little under two inch. Then

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 23s):

61 12 takes that

6 (1h 39m 24s):

Well before you go to 51 hundreds. We have a ride height adjustables for the front of front trucks.

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 29s):

Oh yeah. For, for leveling trucks and things like

6 (1h 39m 30s):

That. We also make 51 hundreds for four inch lifts. Six inch lifts and popular lift

5 (1h 39m 35s):

Oil over application.

Sean P. Holman (1h 39m 36s):

Yeah. If you bought an old, let’s say it’s a, you know, 10 year old Super duty that has XYZs, you know, Bob’s, you know, Midwest Lift Shack or something like that and it’s got just the white Shocks on it, you could keep everything the same and put on 51 hundreds that has the extended length. Exactly. So you guys can service the aftermarket even if they didn’t originally come with Bilstein shock percent, even if there’s somebody else’s lift kit. A hundred percent. Yeah. And then, and, and

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 39m 58s):

Hold on, I’m, I’m listening to the show right now and I’m forgetting everything we’re saying. I can go to Bilstein and put in basically my lift, correct. My truck and my

5 (1h 40m 6s):

Lift part do bill Bilstein and there’s a dropdown menu to your year make and model. And then it’ll give you the increment. Say you have a 99 tow for Super Duty, it’ll give you stock ride height, which is 4,600. It’ll give you two and a half inch for guys with the little mini spring pack. And then it’ll go on and on throughout the lift, lift heights.

Sean P. Holman (1h 40m 24s):

Beautiful. Then you go 51 60 is basically 5,100 with a reservoir. You bumped up to a 61 12. That’s the same technology, but the 61 12 goes to a 60 millimeter, which is a 2.65 inch piston. Then you take that,

6 (1h 40m 35s):

The N 61 twelves are for front end of half-ton trucks. Coil over,

5 (1h 40m 39s):

Not coil half coilers frontiers and Tacomas like

Sean P. Holman (1h 40m 42s):

Midsize half if f s right?

6 (1h 40m 44s):

Yeah, I F SS trucks.

Sean P. Holman (1h 40m 45s):

And then 8181 12 is the halftime trucks top of the line. That’s gonna be your 60 millimeter 2.65 inch piston. And then you can, depending on which model and whatever, you can layer on technology. Some have the J C O R C O, some have the zone control. Soon you’ll have D s A and DSA plus available. So if you guys have questions, bill Bilstein It’s, we got a, a bunch of great info. But I hope having you guys on sort of helped our listener kind of distill the, the bill Bilstein. Why Bill Bilstein? Why are we so excited and understand like the technology, the packaging and I mean? Bill Bilstein just celebrated 150 years. Yep. I mean this is their hundred and 50th year in business. I mean there’s not a lot of companies in in automotive that have been around since the very beginning of it.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 28s):

Can I ask you guys, what is it like working there? Like it’s just two dudes that are enthusiasts. What’s it like working at Bilstein?

Sean P. Holman (1h 41m 34s):

Shane’s been there for about 400 years, so Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 36s):

Not like seriously

Sean P. Holman (1h 41m 37s):

How many years now? Shane

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 41m 38s):

What’s the culture like?

6 (1h 41m 40s):

It’s like hardcore engineering. Like Yeah, that’s great man. It’s, it’s nothing. It’s either the best or nothing at all. Right. you know, they don’t cut any corners. Yeah. Which is nice. So it’s not only

Sean P. Holman (1h 41m 51s):

Design but material. Sometimes we

5 (1h 41m 52s):

Might not be the first to market, but when we get to the market, we’re gonna be Right.

Sean P. Holman (1h 41m 55s):

How many years? Shane?

6 (1h 41m 57s):

About 25, I think. Over 20 actually 25. Nice. Wow. 26. Congrats. Junior.

5 (1h 42m 1s):

Almost 10.

Sean P. Holman (1h 42m 3s):

That’s a lot of, that’s a lot of shock experience sitting in this room. So you know what we didn’t talk about what the one Mojave road trip where we went back in time.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 42m 13s):

Wait, what?

Sean P. Holman (1h 42m 14s):

Yeah, Shane and I had time warped on a trip once.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 42m 17s):

I don’t understand what you’re saying.

Sean P. Holman (1h 42m 18s):

Yeah, we didn’t understand it either. So that,

6 (1h 42m 22s):

That was the first Mojave Road trip. That wasn

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 42m 23s):

Like land of the lost when you were out in the middle of the

Sean P. Holman (1h 42m 25s):

Desert. So this was 20 years ago probably. No, it would’ve been maybe a little bit, maybe That wasn like 18. ’cause That wasn a 2005 or six Hummer H one Alpha that I was testing since sand, sand colored. Like H one Alpha looked military while we’re that. What

5 (1h 42m 40s):

Did you think of that rig?

Sean P. Holman (1h 42m 42s):

That. wasn. All right. I mean they’re cool but you know, they don’t ride well and you know, they’ll go over anything. But mostly it needs to go over anything ’cause you can’t see out of it. Yeah, I thought the alpha with the Durmax and Helic cut portals made it way better than the original. But That wasn still at the end of the day in, in H one, but That wasn still cool. I mean We Are out there. That wasn Rad. So we’re We Are going through the Mojave Road and this is back before That wasn like super popular and nobody’s out on it like they are today by the way.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 43m 6s):

It’s your fault that it’s popular.

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 8s):

Yeah, probably. I’ve, I’ve talked about it too much. And we come over this hill,

6 (1h 43m 12s):

But We Are lost though.

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 13s):

We were lost. We made, made a wrong turn. We were lost. And we come over this hill and we come down into a World War II reenactment in the German camp. What? And you have to imagine we’re like, we’re, we haven’t seen anyone. There’s, there’s no airplanes, there’s no other vehicles, there’s nothing modern, there’s no telephone lines. We go over a hill and We Are now in World War ii and we’re driving through and there’s all these soldiers walking around and it’s like canvas tents and flags and the whole thing. What? And we’ve been transported to like North Africa in 1942 or 43 in like Rommel’s time. There had to be what, 500 people out there.

6 (1h 43m 50s):

There was like don don’t know if there was tanks, but there was half tracks. Yeah, there was

Sean P. Holman (1h 43m 54s):

Like, we literally fought like, like somebody had, you know, too much peyote from the trail or something. Or we went through a wormhole or something. And was it a movie set? No. That wasn a a World War II reenactment. We kept driving and we tried to find our way out and we eventually came to the American camp and That wasn Crazy We Are just out in the middle of the desert and we’re like, Hey, what just happened? So that’d be,

5 (1h 44m 16s):

That’s so bizarre. Did

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 44m 17s):

You go back home and research it to find out who they are? Yeah. And what they were doing? Yeah. That wasn,

6 (1h 44m 21s):

That wasn. Like a annual thing or something?

Sean P. Holman (1h 44m 23s):

Yeah, something. And then we drank, we had a a, one of the people who was with us decided he had to have anchor steam beer and he decided he couldn’t handle any more of the trip. And before we went back in time he peeled out. And so we camped that night and we drank all of his beer. And I think that when we, we camp That wasn like Afton Canyon or something. Right? The end

6 (1h 44m 42s):

Of the end of the trail.

Sean P. Holman (1h 44m 43s):

We must have had 20 beers each. And we emptied the cooler. And remember we got up when the sun got up ’cause we slept on like the picnic tables and That wasn like five 30, probably like three hours sleep. I’m like, time to go home. That was a, that was a fun trip.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 45m 1s):

Gentlemen had spent a treat,

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 3s):

Thanks for coming all the way up from pow and hanging out in the pod shed. And we have literally, this is the first time we’ve had this, this is the

5 (1h 45m 9s):

Raddest pod she ever,

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 10s):

Man, it worked. Yeah. What do you, okay, so what do you guys think about the pod shed? I love

5 (1h 45m 12s):

It. I love it. I could be in here all day.

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 15s):

So when, when we first built it, Lightning was concerned about having people come to my backyard. He goes, that’s just weird and unprofessional. And I’m like, that’s so rad. I’m like, people are gonna be blown away when you open the door and they’re like, oh my god. I mean you guys have sat in here for the last couple hours. Comfortable. Good super

5 (1h 45m 29s):

Comfy man. And I’m, and I’m 325 pounds. But by the way, everyone also thinks that Sean here is employed by Bilstein. Bilstein just in a way, just a fanboy in a way. He is in a way. He is. He’s he’s deep rooted man. And he’s, he’s, you know, passion. I believe in the body. Passionate. He loves it. We love him. you know what I mean? He’s a great brand ambassador. Yeah.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 45m 49s):

I’m just a poser. We’re in the gear. Yeah. That I bought on eBay.

Sean P. Holman (1h 45m 53s):

Listen at, at the end of the day, I, I’ve had a lot of great experiences with the brand. I love the people there and I appreciate you guys supporting the podcast and supporting us in return. But you know, to me the technology, the quality and the performance and, and the user experience, I have never been disappointed with the set. And I really appreciate to keep working with you guys. So again, if you guys wanna find out more, head to bill Bilstein You can also go to Bill Bilstein Shock Absorbers on Facebook. You find ’em on Instagram and then check ’em out. You can do your year make model online and figure out whether you have a zero inch lift all the way up to, you know, six or more depending on the application. You can find Shocks that, that are there.

Sean P. Holman (1h 46m 34s):

And we’ve just read some letters recently where we’ve had listeners say, listen, I I gave Bill Bilstein the tribe just because you guys talked about it and it transformed my truck. So I think there’s a lot more people out there who I think they think, oh, bill Bilstein rides Rough or Bill Bilstein is only off road. No, it’s, it’s for everything. Isn’t it crazy

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 46m 51s):

That they’re listening to us?

5 (1h 46m 52s):

You know what? Also they’re like, the easiest way to get to the catalog page is cart dot bill Bilstein cart. Like

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 46m 58s):

The shopping cart?

5 (1h 46m 59s):

Yeah, like a shopping cart. It’s, it’s a little e it’s a little difficult to get through. Navigating to the actual cart from the main website. So cart dot bill Bilstein

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 9s):

Okay, here’s how we close out the show. So you guys do a high five and, and I got junior over here. Move your mic outta the way. On the count of three, we do a high five or no, we do good. Five stars. Right on the count three it’s five stars. Stars, 1, 2, 3, 5

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 21s):

Stars. Five stars all there you go. That was a double high five. First one ever. 10. He made history. 10 stars. Do you guys see that your sticker made it up to the sticker wall here in The. Truck. Show Podcast. That’s the new, the new logo. I got the new one up there for you guys. So is

6 (1h 47m 34s):

That you right next to it?

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 35s):

That’s our friend Jordan Update. Yeah. Florida Truck meet also Orange. He’s got his own

6 (1h 47m 41s):

Sticker. He does.

5 (1h 47m 43s):

So are all these companies, the ones been here to join the podcast

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 46s):

We’ve had? Yeah. No, they’ve

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 47s):

Been on the show but not in, not in the studio,

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 49s):

But they’re all companies. I’ve, you guys

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 47m 51s):

Are part of an exclusive crew that have been in the pod shed. I

6 (1h 47m 53s):

Suck at Overland. That’s awesome.

Sean P. Holman (1h 47m 56s):

Deck did those stickers for a while and I’ve been waiting, I’ve had that one. I’ve been waiting to put it up and and that’s one of my favorite ones. I love it.

5 (1h 48m 3s):

Most people suck at Overland to be honest.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 48m 8s):

Alright, it’s been a minute, but I think we should get to some calls of the five star hotline. 6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5

8 (1h 48m 16s):

Oh. Come on and be part of the show. Call the five star hotline. (657) 205-6105. It’s the five star hotline. Five star hotline.

9 (1h 48m 33s):

Since you dubbed yourself whole brand, we’ll go with Whole brand and we light opinion following up on your reply to the Lincoln comment. But in regards to the Rampage, based on the Jeep sir probability that almost happened, we both know that it would be Rampage by Ram, not the Ram rampage, but I did like that. The prior commenter called it a Dodge, which just unwinds 15 years of work by those people trying to separate the brand. It’s so hilarious. Talk to you later.

Sean P. Holman (1h 49m 9s):

Well, it’s true. I, I hear people all the time still call it Dodge every single day. Ever since 2009. How many years? 15 years now. The Ram’s been its own brand and people still dodge it’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 49m 18s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 49m 18s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 49m 19s):

Ram, I’m a member of like Dodge Ram trucks Extreme or Dodge Trucks Extreme. And I’m like, and all these guys have newer trucks.

Sean P. Holman (1h 49m 26s):

Yeah, it should be Ram Trucks Extreme.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 49m 27s):

They won’t change it. They’re just dodge And I’m likes weird guys who come to work and said, what are you driving? Oh yeah, I got a new 2022 Dodge 3,500. I go, it’s not a Dodge. What do you mean it’s Ram. You’re driving a Ram

Sean P. Holman (1h 49m 40s):

Doesn anywhere, anywhere on it.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 49m 42s):


9 (1h 49m 43s):

Lightning. Sorry, this one’s a little more about Holman Sean. I’m really disappointed to find out, not that you rented a Nissan Ultima But, that we did not get any storyline at all about Ultima Big energy or big energy Ultima. No, no hashtags, no photos, no nothing. I’m, I’m actually quite a bit let down. Please feel free to follow up with us next time you rent one of these. Thank you.

Sean P. Holman (1h 50m 14s):

So did I talk about that on the air? I can’t remember.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 50m 17s):

I don’t recall.

Sean P. Holman (1h 50m 19s):

All right. So I. I went to Louisiana to see some clients and I rented a small car and it turned out to be a Nissan Ultima. Yeah, That wasn. Okay. Whatever. It’s a nice mid-size car. That wasn an upgrade and I walk out to it and it’s got 2000 miles on it. Brand spanking new. No, no. We

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 50m 33s):

We, we talked about that. Okay. But, but what is, what does he mean about

Sean P. Holman (1h 50m 38s):

No storyline about it? don don’t

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 50m 40s):

Know. I don’t, I what what kind storyline? don don’t You did tell the story. Yeah.

Sean P. Holman (1h 50m 43s):

Okay. And I really liked it. I was ta I think I was talking about how that thing was fricking awesome. I would, I would rock it every day and twice on Wednesday.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 50m 50s):

No big energy, no big Optima hashtags,

Sean P. Holman (1h 50m 53s):

No photos, no nothing.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 50m 54s):

Don don’t know what he’s getting at. What did he, what did, what do he want from Holman? Dude, don don’t understand. Hmm.

9 (1h 51m 3s):

Hey Lightning, you guys haven’t done any like on the for a while. So. I

Sean P. Holman (1h 51m 21s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 51m 22s):

R. So this is a, that’s a know your note by the way is what’s going on here.

Sean P. Holman (1h 51m 25s):

Yeah. We need, do we need more? Know your notes. So guys send in, we’ll start doing that again. We’ve been, it’s been on our list, but we’ve been so busy. But send in some know your notes, we’d like to hear from you. So

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 51m 32s):

Record the Exhaust note or the engine note. Yeah. And then your truck. See if we can guess it. Yeah, for sure. Know your note by the way.

Sean P. Holman (1h 51m 38s):

I’m going big rig don don’t, don don’t know.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 51m 40s):

6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5. Or you can email it to us. I, yeah, I I’m getting big rig vibes as well. All right. Hmm.

10 (1h 51m 50s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 51m 50s):

Yeah, there you go.

9 (1h 51m 53s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 51m 54s):

Now hold on a second. That is, that’s the Jake break, right? Yeah, that sounds awesome. Is that on a, is that a big Cummins engine? No, no,

Sean P. Holman (1h 52m 1s):

No. I

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 52m 2s):

Don know what it is. Caterpillar, what is it? Go. That’s awesome. That just sounds like a machine gun now. Helicopter.

Sean P. Holman (1h 52m 19s):

I think it’s something else, but, okay.

9 (1h 52m 21s):

What’s that noise there? Boys model Caterpillar skated straight bikes. Yeah. There you go. Have a good day. Love

Sean P. Holman (1h 52m 31s):

It. That’s awesome. Sounds great. Thank you for that.

9 (1h 52m 34s):

Hey boys. Good morning. Brian Bretts out here delivering bulk flour. Decided not to call you guys quite so early. I didn’t wanna wake you up. I heard you guys talk about Winnebago Man before on the show. Thought That wasn pretty funny. And when you guys talked about the documentary, took a chance, watched it thought That wasn hilarious. Sat my 17 year old son Patrick down with me. Wasn’t sure what he would think about it. He loved it. My wife walked into the room and sat down and could not wrap her mind around what we were watching

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 53m 11s):


9 (1h 53m 11s):

Or why this was funny. She had to stop multiple times and try to explain the concept of these V h Ss tape trading parties and groups. She just, she’s a physical therapist. Her brain’s kind of analytical. It just totally went in and didn’t compute. But luckily me and my son were more ape-like That wasn

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 53m 36s):


9 (1h 53m 36s):

To us. Thank you for mentioning that. I’m just curious, what do your wives think about Winnebago? Man, they, do they get that? Do they get that humor? I know you guys have both said before you guys are punching above your weight with your wives. Do, do they, do they think that’s funny or not? Hey, thanks again. Five stars Mount those parameters, boys. They’re getting closer every day. Have a great weekend later.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 54m 4s):

And by request. Bye. Star

11 (1h 54m 5s):

Review. Bye. Star master

12 (1h 54m 9s):

Monitor. Key engine parameters.

Sean P. Holman (1h 54m 13s):

I, my wife hasn’t watched it. I should probably watch it with her.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 54m 17s):

My wife has and didn’t get it. She doesn’t get Monty Python. She doesn’t get No, she doesn’t like

Sean P. Holman (1h 54m 23s):

Maybe I’ll subject mine and then make her do a review for us.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 54m 26s):

That would be funny. That would be

Sean P. Holman (1h 54m 27s):

Funny. Yeah. I mean she’s 20 feet away from us right now. We could ask her But that would, it wouldn’t matter. She has to see it first. Oh, you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 54m 33s):

Have? Yeah. You gotta see it first for sure. The

9 (1h 54m 35s):

A Coutre ma that you

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 54m 37s):

Will need a crema. Ah, man. I love what a big man. So what a tragedy that we’ve lost him.

Sean P. Holman (1h 54m 42s):

My national truck.

9 (1h 54m 44s):

Lightning and manhole.

Sean P. Holman (1h 54m 46s):

Hey, So I. Don’t think So I wish Wait a minute.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 54m 49s):

Lightning and Manhole. Is that what you just said?

Sean P. Holman (1h 54m 52s):

Sure. I like that one.

9 (1h 54m 55s):

Lightning and Manhole. Hey So, I was listening to your last episode and at the very end you said that somebody spent $5,000 on bank stuff. Dude, that’s insane. I don’t even all these boxes in my name. What? Geez. Anyway, what was I saying? Oh yeah, Lightning. You’re the fricking man. He loves the good show guys. Thanks.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 55m 23s):

See what he was doing. That is, he’s the guy that bought it All

Sean P. Holman (1h 55m 25s):

Right. Yeah. I Got it. Got it. That’s that’s pretty, that’s pretty funny. I’m, I’m glad. I’m glad you bought it. you know, that reminds me, remember the dude who used to call us on the five star hotline stone and talk about like burritos and tacos in the middle of the night stuff. Oh, I. did he

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 55m 37s):

Go? I forgot about him. I miss him. I don’t know.

Sean P. Holman (1h 55m 40s):

Declan out in New England or New York or whatever. He’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 55m 42s):

Gone. So when we just have it comes in waves. Yeah. Like we get a few guys to call frequently and then it’s another listen. If you

Sean P. Holman (1h 55m 47s):

Guys are still listening and you called like four years ago, call again. Call back. Yeah. We miss you guys.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 55m 51s):

6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5.

Sean P. Holman (1h 55m 53s):

And also mystery caller. Don’t trip over your boxes. Put ’em on your truck. Five

2 (1h 55m 57s):

Star. Five star, five star hotline line

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 56m 3s):

6 5 7 2 0 5 61 0 5. That is the five star hotline. We ask that you call and leave us a funny ass message.

2 (1h 56m 13s):

The show. the show, the show.

Sean P. Holman (1h 56m 19s):

Alright. If you wanna hit us up on the socials at LBC Lightning at Sean p Holman at Truck Show podcast, that’s where you can find us. You can email us truck show, or Lightning at truck show Of course, we want to hear from you. So yeah, like, like me, leave us a message, make it funny. We like that.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 56m 40s):

Or you can record your Exhaust note to like your voice notes on your Android or your iPhone. Record it and then attach that to an email and send it to us. ’cause that’s when the audio is the

Sean P. Holman (1h 56m 49s):

Best. Also, we, I haven’t done it in a while. Yeah. Events.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 56m 54s):

Oh wow. Make

Sean P. Holman (1h 56m 54s):

Sure you guys are sending events to us and you go to trucks to where you can actually take a look and see what events are coming up in your area. We don’t care how big or how small. Send us your event info. We’ll put it on structural podcast on our events page. And of course, please leave us a review on the Apple Podcast app, which of course you iOS people should be pretty, pretty fond of and aware of. We want to get as many five star reviews as possible. Because, it definitely helps people find the show.

2 (1h 57m 21s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 57m 21s):


Sean P. Holman (1h 57m 23s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 57m 23s):

Where we think Nissan. Without Nissan we wouldn’t have made it this far. These guys have been through thick and thin with us and we, we desperately appreciate. We desperately appreciate it.

Sean P. Holman (1h 57m 32s):

Now I gonna say mostly thick.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 57m 34s):

We, there’s no thin just No

Sean P. Holman (1h 57m 37s):

All. They’ve been through

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 57m 37s):

Thick and thick with us.

Sean P. Holman (1h 57m 38s):

All good and thick. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 57m 40s):

That sounds gross. Well, Nissan’s been through the thick and thick with us.

Sean P. Holman (1h 57m 42s):

That’s That is does sound gross, but it does, you know, it’s not gross as a Nissan truck. So head on down your local Nissan dealer. Tell The Truck Show Podcast sent you. Or don’t mention the

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 57m 49s):

Whole fake and thick thing though. No, no,

Sean P. Holman (1h 57m 50s):

No, just, just plug in your phone. Play it on the Fender audio system. It’ll sound like we’re in the truck with you. Whether you’ve like that or not, it’s

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 57m 56s):

Up to you. Well that

Sean P. Holman (1h 57m 57s):

Sounds thick. That’s right. That is thick. Yeah, it’s gross. You get a Nissan Frontier great mid-size truck or the Titan and Titan XD half ton trucks, half ton plus industry’s best warranty, five year, 100,000 miles. We love our Nissan trucks and we appreciate Nissan for sticking with us.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 58m 10s):

And when you’re looking for the most powerful compact engine evaluation tool, looking no further than the bank’s ID dash, both the bank’s ID dash data monster or bank’s ID dash super gauge your choice. If you want data logging, which is how you can record the data and play it back later, the ID dash data monsters for you. Otherwise, grab the super gauge, put it in your car truck Motorcycle for that matter, Jeep 3 92 Jeep 3 92, and

Sean P. Holman (1h 58m 32s):

Enjoy those parameters.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 58m 33s):

Enjoy those parameters just like Holman meant to say, ah,

Sean P. Holman (1h 58m 36s):

That’s exactly what I meant to say. And of course we have to thank Bill Bilstein. Thanks guys for coming in. Shane and Junior That wasn, great to see you guys. I think it’s awesome when brands come and sit in studio with us. I always think the interviews are better and I know That wasn a long one. But again, it seems like when we have these long ones where people are here, the storytelling and, and digging down a product, all that stuff is great. If you’re looking for replacement Shocks, whether it’s your U T V, your C U V, your pickup truck, your Jeep Bill Bilstein has you covered. Twin tubes. Mono tubes, direct replacement, lifted. We learned so much on the show. So much to find out from a company that’s been around for 150 years and they were the original innovator of the mono tube. Go to bill Bilstein, use their year make model tool, and you can see everything that’s available for your vehicle. And you might be surprised, just How much selection there is.

Sean P. Holman (1h 59m 17s):


Jay “Lightning” Tilles (1h 59m 17s):

Holman, you know I’ve got my hand right here. A business card from Junior So. I can email him and request a merchandise So I. Don’t have to wear my counterfeit hoodie anymore.

Sean P. Holman (1h 59m 26s):

Yeah, you should burn that thing. Maybe give it to somebody working on a freeway or something like that. It might keep me safe. It’s high. It’s definitely high vis. Yeah. And before we end the show, we got a great deal from our friends over at onX Offroad. We’ve got Freedom 30 in honor of Independence Day. Coming up you can get 30% off membership, including the elite membership tier, which not only gives you property lines and ownership of property, but also gives you discounts from partners, including a free year subscription to O V R Mag. But if you’re looking for discounts, you’re looking to upgrade your truck. onX has a massive list of partners where you can get discounts. I love Onyx. I use it for all my mapping. You can do so much with it. You can build a route, you can send it to your friends.

Sean P. Holman (2h 0m 7s):

You can go on an adventure or like our, our friend Trevor Nero, you can use it as backup. If you freaking don’t have cell service at Google Maps, it no longer works. Yep. So head over to onX, order your app store and download it on your device today.

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2h 0m 21s):

Use the promo code Freedom 30 at checkout to save 30% off for their 4th of July sale. Do it now. onX All right, Holman, I’m gonna go stand out in the middle of the street and see if cars dodge me.

Sean P. Holman (2h 0m 34s):

Can I be the first one?

Jay “Lightning” Tilles (2h 0m 37s):

The Truck Show Podcast is a production of truck famous l L c. This podcast was created by Sean Holman and Jay Tillis with production elements by DJ Omar Kahn. If you like what you’ve heard, please open your Apple Podcast or Spotify app and give us a five star rating. And if you’re a fan, there’s no better way to show your support than by patronizing our sponsors. Some vehicles may have been harmed during the making of this podcast.